Classic Rugby

[miccloarch]

The less history you know, the less context you have for the present. I'll admit to quite a bit of ignorance about the amateur eras. Half of what I know is from what my dad talked about and the other half is just bits I've picked up randomly. Rugby history just isn't talked about in most modern circles, yet without it, modern rugby would not exist.

Based on discussions about other sports I think people here have knowledge and interest in sport history, so I think this place could do with a classic rugby section. I'll post here in the meantime.

 

[miccloarch]

No better place to start than the beginning.

William Webb Ellis folklore is a myth because Rob Andrew said so. In my view, myths can be true.

Like it or not, the histories of rugby and football (hence, rugby football) are intrinsically linked. Both have ancient versions going back millennia.

But at some point, the details don't seem that important. Even as a huge football fan, I love the idea that someone just said: "Enough of this rubbish. I'm going to pick up this pig's bladder and run with it."



The split with "association football" in 1863 leading to the formation of the RFU in 1871 is the more formal beginning.

Nothing is more rugby union though than the dispute over money that lead to the formation of rugby league in 1895. Some things never change.

 

[Which Tyler]

Cheating gis the single oldest tradition in rugby.
The sport was invented by some posh twat school boy cheating at football

 

[Yulia]

Great thread, thank you, please continue, it's very interesting for someone like me who still doesn't know a lot about rugby

 

[thx123]

Maybe it is an interesting part of rugby history. In 1991 I have been in Kazahstan on rugby tournament and few days erlier there was a play in rugby 13 Kazahstan - Great Britain. I bought there this beer cup.

 

[miccloarch]

Maybe it is an interesting part of rugby history. View attachment 20997In 1991 I have been in Kazahstan on rugby tournament and few days erlier there was a play in rugby 13 Kazahstan - Great Britain. I bought there this beer cup.

I assume "Rugby 13" is Rugby League in which case, yes, this is a good piece of history because I believe Kazakhstan started out in Rugby League in the 1990s.

Very cool.

 

[miccloarch]

The sport was invented by some posh twat school boy cheating at football

The "posh twat$" who codified the first rules nevertheless thought of themselves as orderly gentlemen, hence there were no penalties in the earliest versions of the game "because a gentleman would never cheat."

From what I can gather, initially there were no refs either:

The captains of the respective sides shall be the sole arbiters of all disputes.

Imagine guys like McCaw, Pichot/Creevy, Gregan reffing their own games.

 

[Yulia]

Maybe it is an interesting part of rugby history. View attachment 20997In 1991 I have been in Kazahstan on rugby tournament and few days erlier there was a play in rugby 13 Kazahstan - Great Britain. I bought there this beer cup.

First of all I thought the country name on a cup was written with mistake in Cyrillic "КазаКстан" instead of "КазаХстан", but no, it's the country's name in official Kazakh language. Interesting!

 

[miccloarch]

First laws of rugby union in full: Laws_of_the_Rugby_Football_Union_(1871)

A few things haven't changed in 150 years: drop goals, place kicks, knock-ons, forward pass, 22m/25y drop outs (which of course changed recently) and surprisingly, the general offside rule.

Overall seems very stop-start with "punts" and "fair catches" like Aussie rules football and other weird stuff.

Spontaneous scrums probably the most interesting thing for me (would've helped the All Blacks out against Argentina lol):

11. A scrummage takes place when the holder of the ball being in the field of play puts it down on the ground in front of him, and all who have closed round on their respective sides endeavour to push their opponents back, and by kicking the ball to drive it in the direction of the opposite goal-line.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

The general offside rule was common in most sports back then. I know ice hockey (which is somewhat based off of rugby) had it. Football slowly loosened over time.

Bring back the field goals. Let people have a go.

 

[Which Tyler]

 

[miccloarch]

We're missing almost 100 years of info since 1871 but you can still see how that scrum from 1967 has a dynamic, spontaneous feel to it. Safety has obviously improved in modern scrums but it's also less of a spectacle with all the resets. Modern scrums are also allegedly a lot more technical but it takes some technique and practice to go in at the speed they used to and avoid injury.

 

[miccloarch]

Earliest rugby footage

Oldest I could find, a 1901 rugby league match...


...though here's an article referencing an 1899 game but the yt video was removed

And finally the oldest union international test footage:
England v France (1911), France's first visit to Twickenham

 

[miccloarch]

Historical changes in the scoring system


1871. Very much like football, goals were the only method of scoring. A "try" was one means among many to get a kick at goal, the other most popular being the drop kick. A "fair catch" could be made anywhere on the pitch, whence you could call a mark and take a shot at goal (either a place kick or drop kick) from that point. This was called a "goal from mark."

1875. Tries used as a tie-breaker.

1889. Conversions are now a meaningful distinction, worth 2 points. Just one point for a try and 3 for a goal kick.

1893. First penalty goal ever scored, worth 3 points. A try is already worth 3 points as well.

1903. Drop goals and goals from mark are now worth 4 points each.

1948. Four decades pass and no changes except drop goals and goals from mark are back to 3 points each.

1971. Finally a try is worth 4 points, almost 80 years after it went from 2 to 3. This roughly coincides with an era of pseudo-professionalism where teams are running with ball-in-hand more than ever.

1977. Free kicks introduced and "goal from mark" scrapped.

1992. A pivotal moment in rugby union history when the value of the try is raised to its current state of 5 points.

 

[AlRums]

I started playing in the mid 70s, we were always playing the 1985 version in that video, we would bind together and wait for the command to come together. I don't remotely remember that haphazard style shown as 1979 and before.