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flynnboy

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Hi guys,

I am struggling with stats... as I understand it the top 2 teams from each group go through to the 1/4 finals. Does that mean that the top 2 in each group will play each other for a place in the semi-final or will the top team in each group play the top team in another group ? Also, why did I hear the commentator after tonights match say that England will now play Samoa !?

Thanks
 
flynnboy said:
Hi guys,

I am struggling with stats... as I understand it the top 2 teams from each group go through to the 1/4 finals. Does that mean that the top 2 in each group will play each other for a place in the semi-final or will the top team in each group play the top team in another group ? Also, why did I hear the commentator after tonights match say that England will now play Samoa !?

Thanks
Click to expand...

www.rugbyworldcup.com

Knockout & Pools | Rugby World Cup 2023

Knockout, pools and standings for Rugby World Cup 2023 in France.
www.rugbyworldcup.com www.rugbyworldcup.com

Samoa play England next weekend. Final group game for both teams. England already qualified but they still have to play Samoa next weekend to finish the group games.
 
flynnboy said:
Hi guys,

I am struggling with stats... as I understand it the top 2 teams from each group go through to the 1/4 finals. Does that mean that the top 2 in each group will play each other for a place in the semi-final or will the top team in each group play the top team in another group ? Also, why did I hear the commentator after tonights match say that England will now play Samoa !?

Thanks
Click to expand...
You play against teams from other groups - 1st from one group vs 2nd from another

1st C vs 2nd D
1st B vs 2nd A
1st D vs 2nd C
1st A vs 2nd B
 
Thanks but, why do England have to play Samoa, when England are top and Japan have just beaten Samoa, so, Japan are 2nd in the group ?
 
flynnboy said:
Thanks but, why do England have to play Samoa, when England are top and Japan have just beaten Samoa, so, Japan are 2nd in the group ?
Click to expand...
Everyone plays everyone else in their group
England already have enough points from winning their first three games to progress, but still haven't played their last group game yet

Japan are 2nd for the moment but aren't guaranteed to progress - Argentina play Chile this week then Japan next and could still come second
 
flynnboy said:
Thanks but, why do England have to play Samoa, when England are top and Japan have just beaten Samoa, so, Japan are 2nd in the group ?
Click to expand...

You still have to complete the group stages, regardless. Plus, it's another game as preparation for the quarter finals.
 
Oh, right, I never understood that - every team in the group MUST play all other teams in the group before we can progress to the 1/4 finals - right ?

Thanks guys !
 
TRF_Olyy said:
You play against teams from other groups - 1st from one group vs 2nd from another

1st C vs 2nd D
1st B vs 2nd A
1st D vs 2nd C
1st A vs 2nd B
Click to expand...
Thanks, I think I'm beginning to get it..... but..... why for example isn't it 1st B vs 2nd C - how do they work that out ? The more I think about this the more confused I am getting........ excuse my ignorance, but, why aren't the winners of each group simply playing each other rather than the runners up from another group !? That would make more sense to me.
 
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flynnboy said:
why aren't the winners of each group simply playing each other rather than the runners up from another group !? That would make more sense to me.
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It's a reward for coming first in your group - you get to play a weaker side in the knockouts. Two 2nd places playing each other guarantees that a 2nd placed side makes it to the semi finals, which seems unfair
flynnboy said:
how do they work that out ?
Click to expand...
All pre-planned pre-tournament, think it's always been this format
 
TRF_Olyy said:
It's a reward for coming first in your group - you get to play a weaker side in the knockouts. Two 2nd places playing each other guarantees that a 2nd placed side makes it to the semi finals, which seems unfair

All pre-planned pre-tournament, think it's always been this format
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Thanks, but, why aren't the winners playing the winners of the other groups, which will give you x12 matches and 4 winners which gives you a semi-final from winners playing winners ?
 
flynnboy said:
Thanks, but, why aren't the winners playing the winners of the other groups, which will give you x12 matches and 4 winners which gives you a srmi-final from winners playing winners ?
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There's only four groups, winners playing winners would only give you four matches so would miss out the quarter finals
If you mean winners vs winners and runners up vs runners up then it means that half the winners will automatically miss out of the semis and half the runners up are automatically through, which is unfair
 
TRF_Olyy said:
There's only four groups, winners playing winners would only give you four matches so would miss out the quarter finals
If you mean winners vs winners and runners up vs runners up then it means that half the winners will automatically miss out of the semis and half the runners up are automatically through, which is unfair
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WInner of A plays winners of B C D = x3 matches - same for each of the x4 groups = x12 matches, what am I getting wrong here ? I'm not arguing, just trying to 'understand' how this is working..... maybe I should stop and just enjoy the Rugby ! Durrr
 
flynnboy said:
WInner of A plays winners of B C D = x3 matches - same for each of the x4 groups = x12 matches, what am I getting wrong here ? I'm not arguing, just trying to 'understand' how this is working..... maybe I should stop and just enjoy the Rugby ! Durrr
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So you'd add in an entire second group stage?
Would take too long and be too much strain on the players in a short amount of time
 
TRF_Olyy said:
So you'd add in an entire second group stage?
Would take too long and be too much strain on the players in a short amount of time
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That is what I thought...... at least I'm getting something right ! Thanks for your help Olyy :)
 
Although World Rugby seem hell bent on expanding to 24 teams from 2027 to add in an extra knockout round.

Six pools of four. Top 2 from each pool to progress along with the four best 3rd placed teams. The jeopardy! Pools of death will no longer be a thing.

So something like 36 matches in the pool stage to get shot of just 8 teams (that we could probably guess now) and more mismatches to look forward to. Can't wait…..
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Although World Rugby seem hell bent on expanding to 24 teams from 2027 to add in an extra knockout round.

Six pools of four. Top 2 from each pool to progress along with the four best 3rd placed teams. The jeopardy! Pools of death will no longer be a thing.

So something like 36 matches in the pool stage to get shot of just 8 teams (that we could probably guess now) and more mismatches to look forward to. Can't wait…..
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6 pools of 4 just never works for me - 4 pools of 6 if you need an extra 4 teams in there (great for the lesser lights, but adds another 4-8 walk-overs).
We're already at 4 pools of 5, so 4 pools of 6 is no real difference in terms of duration of competition, and is better than 4x5 in not requiring any byes - which never works out fairly.

What I'd heard though, is that they're looking seriously at the absolute mess that has been recent years of the ERC and Prem Cup pool stages and want to do that, for some bizarre reason that can only increase confusion and lose interest.
 
Quel Carreleur said:
6 pools of 4 just never works for me - 4 pools of 6 if you need an extra 4 teams in there (great for the lesser lights, but adds another 4-8 walk-overs).
We're already at 4 pools of 5, so 4 pools of 6 is no real difference in terms of duration of competition, and is better than 4x5 in not requiring any byes - which never works out fairly.
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6 Pools of 4 doesn't increase the duration of the tournament either. In fact it replaces a round of walkovers for an extra playoff round where there's pressure and increased possibility of upsets. So for example, even a tier 1 Scotland playing SA in a second round playoff would be a way more interesting game than them meeting in a "group of death."
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Pools of death will no longer be a thing.
Click to expand...

It could still be if tier 2 teams are given a chance to improve by playing tier 1 regularly i.e. introduce relegation to the 6N and RC. In fact, here's a novel idea: the Five Nations. Sound familiar? But now add relegation. Tier 1 doesn't want any of this because of greed/corruption etc.
 
miccloarch said:
It could still be if tier 2 teams are given a chance to improve by playing tier 1 regularly i.e. introduce relegation to the 6N and RC. In fact, here's a novel idea: the Five Nations. Sound familiar? But now add relegation. Tier 1 doesn't want any of this because of greed/corruption etc.
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When we talk about tier 2 we often think about the Pacific Islands, but realistically their populations are so small that they are never going to have consistently competitive teams and no real domestic infrastructure with their players being scattered abroad. From time to time as Fiji have now they'll have golden generations but not consistently. Not to say they shouldn't get exposure, of course they should, just to manage expectations. Samoa population 200K, Tonga 100K, Fiji 900K.

The likes of the US and Canada, Spain, Germany etc are different questions. But even Italy with all the exposure they've had haven't really gone beyond winning the occasional game against T1 teams.

Look at the football World Cup. Much broader game, but the finals all tend to be traditional powerhouses- Arg, Fra, Bra, Ger etc. Croatia made one final but fundamentally it's the teams from the heartlands - which I think applies in most team sports, although much less so in individual ones.
 

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