Do SH ppl watch the 6N ?

[Big Ewis]

Yeah, I mean this in the most neutral possible way. Like, imagine I'm a martian, I couldn't care less if you said European Rugby sucked. It's probably been asked and debated lively and all that, but I haven't seen it. Of course, I realize "SH" is vague...maybe I dunno, say SA guys check it out more than Australia+NZ...

But as I'm asking completely neutrally, could I ask for no sarcasm no bullshyt etc...it sounds blunt and naive to pose it like that, but it's just that simple. I want to gather as much info about this as possible...
With the exciting game you've got there, is there anything that draws you to European rugby ? Would you watch an all-European tournament ? The regular rugby fan probably doesn't know most players right, besides the more famous Tuilagi/O'Driscoll/Michalak and co. ?

This year it's boring as FK...AND France sucks ass, so I'm basically just looking forward to a fresher (well not so fresh with our calendar...) French squad in NZ and your TRC...can't wait in fact...

Please tell me frankly. Leave wtvr complexes you may have, just, your genuine sentiment. You can tell me you think NH Rugby sucks, if that's your honest opinion I'll embrace it without problem.
Thanks.

 

[Zed]

Yeah I watch it all the time. It's a great competition simply because of the intense rivalry and the history between these nations. This year has been a bit disappointing though. The standard has been quite poor. Some exciting games, but lots and lots of mistakes, silly errors, poor decision making, bad tackling etc etc Players unable to do the basics - catch and pass. Frustrating to watch as a neutral, but still a fascinating competition that I look forward to as much as the 4N (sorry I'm not calling it the rugby championship or whatever it's called)

 

[nickdnz]

I watch it yes. Most people wouldn't though. The time of the morning it is on means people have to pull all nighters.

I watch it for multiple reasons - one of which is you accassionaly see some players show the skill they have. If I didn't watch this 6 Nations I'd probably not have heard of Stuart Hogg, now he's probably my favourite fullback in the NH. The other is because I'm interested in the results and the form of the teams, partly because I want to know what NZ will be playing against.

I tend to agree some of the matches have been poor though. Some of the rugby just isn't very good, and I don't mean that to be insulting. The bright side is this 6 Nations is far more open than any others I remember - Scotland winning two games, Italy winning one and France not having won anything makes it very unpredictable!

 

[Big Ewis]

...unpredictably BAD that is nick.
"Some of the rugby just isn't very good, and I don't mean that to be insulting." how's that insulting ?! The level of play has been abysmal this year. There's basically just England who've managed to play a full 80min each time, and it's not like they exactly look intimidating with their incredible gameplan and flamboyant attack...they just grind wins out, I'd be tempted to say "as usual".

Now I don't watch Super Rugby, since so far the top14 and HC have been a handful to follow, along with the NBA I'm a fanatic of. But I'll get there eventually, and I can only imagine how boring it must be for some SH fans to watch, say, an Italy Scotland match (not this year particularly).

You mentioned a very important, overlooked point as well Zed: the fundamentally sound nature of SH Rugby. In the NH, for some reason our guys just commit soooooo, so many more mistakes that constantly kill, even ANNIHILATE the match at times. I can't even imagine - not even imagine - a match where the AB would commit like 15 knockons, bad hands not catching passes, guy runs by himself no support, ball being left unattended out of ruck, slow defense...
the shhhhhhhhitty things we pull constantly. It took the AB a "disease game" in Twick to look half like that, and still they could string nice plays as well.

So far, it's still a mystery for me: why the Sanzar nations still are so much better today, still in 2013. Surely, it's changing. I'd say right now, only NZ really is amply ahead of NH powerhouses. Why the hell can't we be neater ?!

I don't mean to elevate France to a level we're not at, or make a heavy-handed connection between NZ and us, but if France could be more consistent, just a tad, we'd look like a small AB team I believe. We have all the tools for the attacking flair, great passing, the breakdown dominance, the defense...but it just - ain't - happening !!...
of course I'm not saying that with more regularity, we're AS GOOD as NZ. I'm just saying in style.

EDIT: also, do ppl in Aus and NZ usually see the 6N as rather continuity in a long world-wide Rugby season, as in just another chapter during the year; or is there really a separation, like, yeh they're having *their* tournament over *there*, and I'll just settle for maybe looking at the results, if I have time...
I'd imagine the second, even though as a neutral to me it's just another part of the Rugby yearly Calendar. 6N, June tests, 4N, Nov tests...(with other minor events...)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I would if I could and I like the intensity and close rivalry of it and as most Saffa rugby fans I don't mind watching a supposedly boring match if it's technically up to scratch. The SA rugby fan who didn't play rugby and is mostly only concerned with his club and the Bokke though probably wouldn't. I do actually like the HC more than the 6N though probably because it doesn't for the most part clash with our own season and it has players from the SH as well; usually either semi-retired SH stars or fringe players (not that the 6N isn't starting to look more and more the same LOL).

I wouldn't watch a NH match if it coincides with a SR match- apart from an Aussie derby (unless it's the Reds vs the Brumbies or whatever that has huge bearing on the log towards the end)- simply because it has less bearing on the teams I support. Then sometimes there is just too much rugby and my wife starts nagging me so I have to prioritize. TBH I've only watched the 1st round of 6N this year because the SR wasn't in full swing yet. I struggle to manage more than 3 or 4 rugby games over a weekend. I would like to watch more though and generally root for Italy in the 6N and if they manage to make the cut, RM92 in HC though with all their Saffa players I have a soft spot for Ulster as well. Saracens I find irritating though (mainly because they seem to deny they have a whole lot of SA players).

 

[smartcooky]

You have to remember 6N in NZ is only on Pay TV (ESPN actually). It might be the same in Aussie.

I rarely get up at the right time to watch it live, unless its a late game that's on at 6am NZ time. Usually, I record it on the MySky and watch it later.

I'm more likely to get up to watch the Heineken Cup, especially if Quins or Leinster are playing.

I've watched the final live for the last few years.

 

[TRF_heineken]

@Yoe, I do try to watch the Six Nations when possible. the problem is that it's the same time as the Super Rugby Matches except the Sunday game, which is when I go to the Movies...

I do catch the weekly highlights of the games though...

 

[Big Ewis]

okay, alright...thanks for your replies, I suppose I have *some* element of answer there though I probably can't base a conclusion on just those forum messages...but it seems to be the general tendency, am I wrong ? - that it's basically because of TV coverage and time difference issues rather than actual interest in the tournament per se ?
I'd imagine surely that the regular rugby fan worries only about SR though and 4N and test matches though; seeing the quality of play (despite the great rivalry level in the 6N) and how from what I understand Aussies and NZ'ers seem "isolated" from the rest of the world down there and Oceania is a continent so ppl in general do seem to be like Americans a bit, disconnected from the rest of the world and Europe included.
It would be interesting to assess just how "other" Europe and European Rugby is to those SANZAR nations and their ppl...surely Aussies and NZ'ers feel closer to Europe than say, Japan, even though geographically you deal a lot more with the Japs.

 

[nickdnz]

I'd imagine surely that the regular rugby fan worries only about SR though and 4N and test matches though; seeing the quality of play (despite the great rivalry level in the 6N) and how from what I understand Aussies and NZ'ers seem "isolated" from the rest of the world down there and Oceania is a continent so ppl in general do seem to be like Americans a bit, disconnected from the rest of the world and Europe included.
It would be interesting to assess just how "other" Europe and European Rugby is to those SANZAR nations and their ppl...surely Aussies and NZ'ers feel closer to Europe than say, Japan, even though geographically you deal a lot more with the Japs.

Well I can only really speak for New Zealander's, but there is certainly a feelling of isolation in New Zealand from the rest of the world, but because of that I think most New Zealander's take an outside interest. In New Zealand our television is primarily American with a mixture of British, Australian and local content - so in many ways New Zealander's are connected through the rest of the world by cultural emperialism - so our popular culture is of course similar to the others.

Primarily we do feel closer to England I suppose than anywhere else, regardless of trade because we're a colony of England. Most New Zealander's aren't older than fourth generation so have roots in Europe and probably Australia. Finally, because we are so isolted, most New Zealanders will eventually do an O.E. I personally will be staying in Europe for a couple of years in 2015. I think it amazes so many Kiwi's that certain people in Europe don't really travel of leave the country when the ease/cost of transport is so tiny in comparrison.

 

[Big Ewis]

Right well culturally of course you're closer to England than anything else...that's where most came from. But I see Australia more like the US than England, I've been to Sydney (just once unfortunately) but besides that, it's this same sort of melting pot: new strong economy, isolated on its own continent, with some traces of indigenous ppl and culture and a new culture of their own created, and the influence of their neighbors interestingly: America with Mexico and the rest of Latina America, and Aussies with the Pac Islanders+Japan etc...changes the culture of the ppl I believe, the references...in Europe, we have just...other Europeans as neighbors.

But it's funny how rugby wise NZ and England are probably the furthest things apart...

That's great man ! You're obviously watching some of the RWC then I presume.

 

[Zed]

Every year they **** around with the coverage, last 2 years it has been free on sky, year before it was delayed by 6 hours, u had to pay to watch it live, before that you had to pay to watch it period. In the 90s some years they would have it other years they wouldn't. I ended up listening to the games on the radio ha ha now that's keen!

 

[Superalexmarket]

In Argentina we always see the NH rugby, cause we have a similar brand of rugby than Europe (90 % of pumas play in there) So we feel like an european country in terms of rugby at least. Geographically we belongs to SH, thats why we play in TRC, but in real terms we're like a "little France" between the south giants. The SH rugby is better than NH, no doubt about it, so Argentina maybe could have great benefits of that mix of NH rugby that we play and the SH style that we try to learn.

 

[nickdnz]

Right well culturally of course you're closer to England than anything else...that's where most came from. But I see Australia more like the US than England, I've been to Sydney (just once unfortunately) but besides that, it's this same sort of melting pot: new strong economy, isolated on its own continent, with some traces of indigenous ppl and culture and a new culture of their own created, and the influence of their neighbors interestingly: America with Mexico and the rest of Latina America, and Aussies with the Pac Islanders+Japan etc...changes the culture of the ppl I believe, the references...in Europe, we have just...other Europeans as neighbors.

But it's funny how rugby wise NZ and England are probably the furthest things apart...

That's great man ! You're obviously watching some of the RWC then I presume.

Yeah if I can, my bank is still recovering from the last one! But yeah, I'll do my best to get tickets. #1 on my list of things to do is go to a Quins match, but wanna see a few matches in France if I can as well. Will be based in England, but hope to see as much of Europe that I can, may do a bit of couch surfing if I get too poor.

I suppose as you say, there is a individual culture in both Aus and NZ which is probably closer to USA than England, if for no other reason than we lack 1000's of years of history to develop, so our 'newness' means we've adopted bits and pieces from other cultures.

 

[oldscumbagonian]

I'd turn the concept around - as a NH resident I watched all three 6N games from last weekend. Then I watched Hurricanes v Blues and Highlanders v Chiefs. It was like watching two different sports. One set was full of errors, unimaginative attack and painfully slow recycling at the breakdown; the other had superb handling, angles of running, quick delivery from the breakdown and excitement (and, possibly, some dodgy defending). As a spectacle I'd rather watch SR than the somewhat turgid stuff delivered in the 6N so far (except, perhaps, in the first round). That said, I've also watched a couple of Australian SR matches and that was a bit more like the NH but I still felt that the basic skill levels were higher.

I thought both NZ games were well refereed (I'm not blaming the referee for the penalty try awarded to the Hurricanes by the TMO!). Neither were tolerant of sides slowing the ball at the breakdown and the players soon responded accordingly. Unlike in the 6N where the referees, including Joubert, did seem to allow some dubious actions designed to slow down release.

What was strange was a half empty Westpac Stadium!!

 

[Big Ewis]

In Argentina we always see the NH rugby, cause we have a similar brand of rugby than Europe (90 % of pumas play in there) So we feel like an european country in terms of rugby at least. Geographically we belongs to SH, thats why we play in TRC, but in real terms we're like a "little France" between the south giants. The SH rugby is better than NH, no doubt about it, so Argentina maybe could have great benefits of that mix of NH rugby that we play and the SH style that we try to learn.

sorry for not mentioning Argentina in my comments, but as you said, we sometimes forget Argentina is SH !...and you're not "little France" anymore ! And for a supposed "NH-like" team, that was one hell of a first 4N. I don't care ARG didn't win a match, that simply doesn't tell the story - one must watch the matches to judge.

Zed:
thaaa radio ?!! Seriously ?! :lol:It's just so strange though...you'd imagine after DECADES and DECADES of rugby development, we'd catch up with the SANZAR teams in terms of, as we've discussed, fundamentally sound skill...(I hear you oldscum....)
My dad (used to play rugby as a teen, decaaaaades ago !) EVERY TIME I show him some SH stuff on youtube or wtvr, he'll repeat the same sentence every single time: "you see ! you see ! they don't 'bury' the ball these guys !" as we say in French, as in the ball keeps flowing and play isn't stopped with EVERY SINGLE PASS like a certain other hemisphere does...

Oh I'm just spewing out the obvious right now. It sounds like I've just discovered rugby yesterday reading my posts on this thread, but it's just smt isn't it...

Finally: good luck with that nick ! God, do I know where the fk I'll be in 2015.....

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd turn the concept around - as a NH resident I watched all three 6N games from last weekend. Then I watched Hurricanes v Blues and Highlanders v Chiefs. It was like watching two different sports. One set was full of errors, unimaginative attack and painfully slow recycling at the breakdown; the other had superb handling, angles of running, quick delivery from the breakdown and excitement (and, possibly, some dodgy defending). As a spectacle I'd rather watch SR than the somewhat turgid stuff delivered in the 6N so far (except, perhaps, in the first round). That said, I've also watched a couple of Australian SR matches and that was a bit more like the NH but I still felt that the basic skill levels were higher.

I thought both NZ games were well refereed (I'm not blaming the referee for the penalty try awarded to the Hurricanes by the TMO!). Neither were tolerant of sides slowing the ball at the breakdown and the players soon responded accordingly. Unlike in the 6N where the referees, including Joubert, did seem to allow some dubious actions designed to slow down release.

What was strange was a half empty Westpac Stadium!!

I would argue from that the Chiefs Highlanders match was full of errors with the ball going all over the place still exciting of course. Before someone bites my head off I know it was both teams opening game with all that comes with that. I enjoy both for different reasons but it does annoy me when people say the 6n lacks excitment it just comes in a different form to Super Rugby.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I would argue from that the Chiefs Highlanders match was full of errors with the ball going all over the place still exciting of course. Before someone bites my head off I know it was both teams opening game with all that comes with that. I enjoy both for different reasons but it does annoy me when people say the 6n lacks excitment it just comes in a different form to Super Rugby.

Just remember another thing, 6 Nations is international teams and Super Rugby is Clubs/Franchises. There ought to be a difference in class and more lee-way on errors in Super Rugby than Tests. I think this is another thing which seperates the SH from the NH in that you guys compare your elite test tournament to our club tournament.

 

[Teh Mite]

Just remember another thing, 6 Nations is international teams and Super Rugby is Clubs/Franchises. There ought to be a difference in class and more lee-way on errors in Super Rugby than Tests. I think this is another thing which seperates the SH from the NH in that you guys compare your elite test tournament to our club tournament.

Conversely, the Heineken Cup (broken and bent as it is) still kicks the shite out of anything you colonials and convicts can cobble together!

 

[Big Ewis]

@ heineken:
well you're right, club play is a lot more sloppy and careless...at least in the NH. But we don't usually compare the 6N to your club matches man, where d'you get that from ?!

 

[Draggs]

Conversely, the Heineken Cup (broken and bent as it is) still kicks the shite out of anything you colonials and convicts can cobble together!