ELV talk

[Prestwick]

I'd love to see how awarding free kicks instead of penalties somehow magically clears up the breakdown.

Not saying that its wrong to use more free kicks in lieu of penalties but that ELV is utterly irrelevent to the issues surrounding the breakdown...

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 27 2009, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not saying that its wrong to use more free kicks in lieu of penalties but that ELV is utterly irrelevent to the issues surrounding the breakdown...[/b]

Spot on. The ELVs as they are employed in Europe haven't addressed the breakdown at all however for some reason the breakdown is the primary area being used to bash the ELVs up here. Free kicks awarded for infringements at the ruck (as is the case in the Super 14) are merely an invitation for defenders to stick their hands in without giving away 3 points.

Something has to be done to solve this problem area. Unless it is sorted out we're going to see a continuation of aerial ping pong, ELVs or no ELVs. The iRB made a balls of the breakdown by getting referees to become more strict at that area.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

And no one can say that the aesthetics of the action on the pitch has been beneffitted by the ELVs.[/b]

Actually, I can and will in certain instances. Tries have been scored which previously wouldn't have been given due to the corner flag no longer being deemed out of play. That has benefited the game. There is more space to attack off the back of scrums. That has benefited the game. Banning kicking straight out from a pass back into the 22 has benefited the game in my opinion but I can see the counter argument to this also. I'll give you that the maul becoming redundant hasn't been good for the sport. What I won't accept is the contention that the ELVs have resulted in endless kicking back and forth. That's a by product of another iRB directive. That directive has turned some rugby into an ugly spectacle, not the ELVs.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 27 2009, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Very persuasive article with lovely numbers which people seem to love. Shame I can pick it apart in 5 minutes.[/b]

The numbers with regard the amount of people in a ruck are very relevant since they help indicate why there's so little space out wide and why defences are on top. If a way can be found to commit more players to the breakdown, that will open up the game in my opinion. That's what I gleamed from Bills' article more so than any blindly pro-ELV stance.

 

[Charles]

The breakdown problem comes from leniency from the referee that appeared some years ago about players going off their feet, even on their side of the ruck, making the contest impossible. The IRB should adress that first . You just have to watch a game of Munster to see the obvious problem.
Concerning the ELVs, I say get rid of the no maul rule, and the pass 22 thing, which leads to endless stupid kicks. Let's boot to touch and have a line-out and be done with it. The rest is fine.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Mar 28 2009, 07:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The breakdown problem comes from leniency from the referee that appeared some years ago about players going off their feet, even on their side of the ruck, making the contest impossible. The IRB should adress that first . You just have to watch a game of Munster to see the obvious problem.
Concerning the ELVs, I say get rid of the no maul rule, and the pass 22 thing, which leads to endless stupid kicks. Let's boot to touch and have a line-out and be done with it. The rest is fine.[/b]

I think the maul was the most boring thing in rugby and technically, with the player at the back in possession of the ball, you have to make a rule exception to include the maul, so that the players in front of the ball are not off side.

If the rule allowing a maul to be dropped by a defending team was scrapped then maybe a rule not making exception of the behind the ball off side rule would make a maul more contestable as a defense would have access to the ball, as it would have to be at the front of the maul, and not untouchable at the back.

I would like to see any variations in the Rules lean towards making the game simpler to referee and easier to watch, I don't believe these ELVs really did that, it was more a case of the IRB asking referees to become more strict whilst offering less opportunity for a referee to award penalties.


1. Make the Rugby more contestable at the set piece, straight feeds at scrums, straight throws at line outs, no dropping the maul but no player offside at a maul either.


2. Not allowed to lay the ball back after the tackle. When tackled a player tackled and the tackler must not touch the ball. further players enter from either end and stay on their feet else they may not contest for the ball either. Illegal attempts first to be punished by free kick, consecutive infringements a penalty, and any further consecutive infringement punished with a yellow card. Zero tollerance for slowing the ball, whilst allowing for honest mistakes.

3. Touch judges to referee the blind side of the scrum

4. Persistent infringers resulting in negative play, (players who Persistently slow ball in defense, who prevent attackers from releasing the ball, who try to play offside, who persistently play the referee more than the game etc etc etc), who are renown as the best cheaters, to be punished for cheating. It is a mockery of our sport when the Greatest Players are also lauded as the Greatest Cheats.

5. Convictions by any body of Rugby management, local, national or IRB for "Eye Gouging" or any form of un-necisary malicious body harming and such like foul play to result in an unquestionable life ban.

 

[Cymro]

What bugs me most when the ball is out at the base of the ruck the ref decided to say the ball is still in the ruck just because the player thats at the back is arm is grabbing the jersey in front and hes standing there leaning in doing nothing with the ball at his feet is shocking!

For me i dont like the pass back 22 meter rule! The breakdown is just a free for all the bloke who solves the problem will surely be knighted!

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Mar 31 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What bugs me most when the ball is out at the base of the ruck the ref decided to say the ball is still in the ruck just because the player thats at the back is arm is grabbing the jersey in front and hes standing there leaning in doing nothing with the ball at his feet is shocking!

For me i dont like the pass back 22 meter rule! The breakdown is just a free for all the bloke who solves the problem will surely be knighted![/b]

completely agree with you mate...

i think the way to do it might be like the old schoolboy rugby style where when you are on the floor you have to put your hands behind your head...!

would be embarrassing for grown men, but would stop infringements