England’s tour to Australia thread

[TRF_Olyy]

Throwing LCD in to start would be a bit of a risk considering he's not played since January (I think?)
But then again when have England ever concerned themselves with things like that

Bit concerning when LCD/May/Cokanasiga/Nowell have got a handful of games between them since Christmas (not sure any are on double figures)

 

[Geordie]

Ah Jones doesnt pick on club form anyway so no issue.

 

[BPM]

So who do we want to see? Who as Captain? We need to choose now and stick with it

For me it would be

Genge(C) LCD, Stuart
Itoje Hill
Willis Billy(8) Curry
Care Smith
Faz Marchant
Freeman Starward(15), May

George
Rodd
Hayes
Lawes
Underhill
Randall
Dingwall..maybe?
Big Joe?

Not sold on 3 14 23, they dont bother me

LCD Hill need gametime and have strong replacements on the bench so not a risk even though they have less gametime.

Randall is a better bench option

What do we think?

I could get behind that, although I’d also favour George starting and would potentially swap Rodd out for Mako and bring Chessum in for Underhill.

Edit: the theory seems to be that Australia will want to keep the ball on the park. That might limit the number of lineouts, so having a notable jumper at 6 might be less of a requirement. That lends itself more to dual opensides IMO - I’d prefer Willis and Curry but not against Underhill.

 

[Scotty]

I could get behind that, although I’d also favour George starting and would potentially swap Rodd out for Mako and bring Chessum in for Underhill.

Edit: the theory seems to be that Australia will want to keep the ball on the park. That might limit the number of lineouts, so having a notable jumper at 6 might be less of a requirement. That lends itself more to dual opensides IMO - I’d prefer Willis and Curry but not against Underhill.

Forgot Chessum but i want him at lock though, and he needs gamtime from the bench.

Willis Curry i just want to see at 6 or 7 for a game.

LCD purely because if not going well we can pull him off for george but 60 min will bennefit him quite abit if going well.

Mako or Rodd i dont mind

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ah Jones doesnt pick on club form anyway so no issue.

He doesn't pick on international form either.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

Throwing LCD in to start would be a bit of a risk considering he's not played since January (I think?)
But then again when have England ever concerned themselves with things like that

Bit concerning when LCD/May/Cokanasiga/Nowell have got a handful of games between them since Christmas (not sure any are on double figures)

Hill too.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not suggesting it’s our first choice or anything, but with a nod to the future I’d like to see Chessum and Isiekwe together in the row at some point.

 

[HamJan]

I

So who do we want to see? Who as Captain? We need to choose now and stick with it

For me it would be

Genge(C) LCD, Stuart
Itoje Hill
Willis Billy(8) Curry
Care Smith
Faz Marchant
Freeman Starward(15), May

George
Rodd
Hayes
Lawes
Underhill
Randall
Dingwall..maybe?
Big Joe?

Not sold on 3 14 23, they dont bother me

LCD Hill need gametime and have strong replacements on the bench so not a risk even though they have less gametime.

Randall is a better bench option

What do we think?

So who do we want to see? Who as Captain? We need to choose now and stick with it

For me it would be

Genge(C) LCD, Stuart
Itoje Hill
Willis Billy(8) Curry
Care Smith
Faz Marchant
Freeman Starward(15), May

George
Rodd
Hayes
Lawes
Underhill
Randall
Dingwall..maybe?
Big Joe?

Not sold on 3 14 23, they dont bother me

LCD Hill need gametime and have strong replacements on the bench so not a risk even though they have less gametime.

Randall is a better bench option

What do we think?

I thought May was out. I can see Marchant on the wing and Dingwall at 13.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It’s hard to gauge Eddie’s opinion of Dingwall. He’s been in his squads for a long time now - at times when, IMO, his inclusion wasn’t entirely deserved. And yet EJ’s never given him so much as a bench appearance, even against the Babaas.

 

[Scotty]

It’s hard to gauge Eddie’s opinion of Dingwall. He’s been in his squads for a long time now - at times when, IMO, his inclusion wasn’t entirely deserved. And yet EJ’s never given him so much as a bench appearance, even against the Babaas.

Not saying im against him but how are we still trying out new players? As combo i think we need to stick with Care Smith Faz Marchant as 9 10 12 13 because we have not got time to develop others. And this attack is hardly set. Not to mention when Slade comes back from injury if EJ will slot him back in, we cant be wasting caps or minutes anymore. Which is worrying.

And Randall just isnt there yet to be the main starter IMO. Still gutted Quirke got broken as he looked like he'd take over

 

[Reiser99]

*Scans multiple messages for Ewels' name.*

*Slowly puts emoji back in pocket*

 

[Derpus]

I could get behind that, although I’d also favour George starting and would potentially swap Rodd out for Mako and bring Chessum in for Underhill.

Edit: the theory seems to be that Australia will want to keep the ball on the park. That might limit the number of lineouts, so having a notable jumper at 6 might be less of a requirement. That lends itself more to dual opensides IMO - I’d prefer Willis and Curry but not against Underhill.

I think this is a bit of a hangover from the Cheika 'Australian way' **** that saw Australia stuck in their 22 for the majority of his tenure post 2015 (similar to how the Wallabies are perceived as being unable to scrum despite it being a strength with guys like Tupou and Bell running around).

Rennie has, from the start, emphasised the need for an effective kicking game. Part of why 50-22 was introduced was to force the SR sides to kick more. Its also worth noting that set piece was a key strength for the Brumbies and the Waratahs (before they fell apart in the finals). The Wallabies finally have the cattle for a balanced backrow and Rennie has moved well away from the two openside model Cheika favoured.

I expect the Wallabies will be kicking more than you expect with the intention of putting pressure on the English lineout and maul. Remains to be seen whether the young/inexperienced guys can execute at a level sufficient to put an experienced England pack under pressure, though.

Its also worth noting Tupou, arguably our best player, is injured and his partner is expecting. So we might not see him until the third test (or at all).

I'd honestly be satisfied with one win in three and two competitive performances that show the young guys are on the right track and we are developing a balanced game plan. A whitewash would suck but I wouldn't be shocked if it happens.

I'm also expecting some pretty limp crowds. Sales are below expectations/hopes I believe.

 

[Geordie]

It’s hard to gauge Eddie’s opinion of Dingwall. He’s been in his squads for a long time now - at times when, IMO, his inclusion wasn’t entirely deserved. And yet EJ’s never given him so much as a bench appearance, even against the Babaas.

Young players tend to be in the squads for a long time before they get much gametime, as Eddie focuses on their weaknesses and improves them. Most of the time their first experiences is just to be given instructions where they need to improve and go back to the clubs and do so.

Its very rare that new players to the squad get put in the team straight away.

 

[Geordie]

Not saying im against him but how are we still trying out new players? As combo i think we need to stick with Care Smith Faz Marchant as 9 10 12 13 because we have not got time to develop others. And this attack is hardly set. Not to mention when Slade comes back from injury if EJ will slot him back in, we cant be wasting caps or minutes anymore. Which is worrying.

And Randall just isnt there yet to be the main starter IMO. Still gutted Quirke got broken as he looked like he'd take over

Theres always times to look at new players, especially a player who covers our historically nightmare position...12.

But i agree at the moment 10 Smith, 12 Farrell, 13 Marchant is the starting midfield, hopefully Dingwall can get some time off the bench and show what he is capable off. He looks a complete / rounded midfielder, and despite his slighter frame looks strong.

With him and Kelly coming through and a few other 18-20 yo's coming through, hopefully midfield might suddenly become a position of strength once again.

 

[BPM]

Dingwall is a very good player. Unfortunately for him, he’s a strong all rounder but lacking an obvious point of difference which puts him at a disadvantage in comparison to players with a clearer x-factor.

If Farrell is at 12, the 13 ideally needs power (Tuilagi) or pace/footwork (Marchant). We’ve seen that picking Farrell and Slade together at centre lacks punch and while Slade and Dingwall are quite different players, I think it would ultimately present a similar problem. They’re just not enough of a foil for Farrell.

Dingwall reminds me a bit of a more skilful Chris Harris. He’s a very good defender and more capable in attack than Harris IMO. I’d back him as a test player, I just don’t see where he fits in our current midfield set up unless he is the 12.

 

[Geordie]

Yes i agree to an extent. But sometimes a rounded player of high quality might be better than someone who is brilliant in attack but mediocre in defiance or vice versa.

We have struggled at 12 for a long time...and Farrell to his credit has just got on with the job, indeed has been a part of some of Englands best rugby.

Im certainly not saying Dingwall is the answer...i actually think Kelly looks the man for the job potentially. But the stats show that as prem centres go, hes right up there in both attack and defence, so clearly has something about him worth looking at.

Either way having a few young 12's coming through now is very positive.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yes i agree to an extent. But sometimes a rounded player of high quality might be better than someone who is brilliant in attack but mediocre in defiance or vice versa.

100% this.

X factor should be in addition to a rock solid all round game, not instead of.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I rate Dingwall too but realistically he's probably only there to make up the numbers until Slade is back
I'd expect Nowell to be used in the centres before him

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd expect Nowell to be used in the centres before him

Lord, no.

There was talk of Freeman being viewed as a centre.

 

[BPM]

100% this.

X factor should be in addition to a rock solid all round game, not instead of.

But that’s not what I said at all. My point is that in comparison to Marchant who is a better attacker without losing much in defence, Dingwall lacks a standout attribute. I’d argue Dingwall is a better defender than Tuilagi and Slade too, but can’t do what they can do when they’re at his best. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

But that’s not what I said at all. My point is that in comparison to Marchant who is a better attacker without losing much in defence, Dingwall lacks a standout attribute. I’d argue Dingwall is a better defender than Tuilagi and Slade too, but can’t do what they can do when they’re at his best. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I think we’re largely agreeing?

I’m not advocating Dingwall (I’d go Marchant too) just agreeing that I’d rather see players with a strong all round skill set than ones who are fantastic at one attribute but equally as poor at others. Glad you cited Manu, I was going to do likewise. How much of the ball in hand demolition he used to do was offset by poor defensive positioning, charging out of the line etc? There’s no point selecting fantastic attackers if they don’t end up in overall credit because of poor defence. And vice versa.

Mako and his scrummaging is another case in point - he had to be seriously effective around the pitch to offset that, and sometimes was, but not often enough.

 

[BPM]

TBH, I’m not at all sure that the 2022 version of Tuilagi is really worth waiting on. When he has played, he hasn’t been particularly impressive and a lot of it is living on reputation and a vain hope that he can find fitness and form. I’d rather invest in Marchant who I think is really underrated.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Has the forum been down for 2 days? And where has the Australia game day thread gone? Is this my phone or is the forum having some issues?

 

[Derpus]

Has the forum been down for 2 days? And where has the Australia game day thread gone? Is this my phone or is the forum having some issues?

Pretty sure the site has been rolled back to around Wednesday of last week.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Has the forum been down for 2 days? And where has the Australia game day thread gone? Is this my phone or is the forum having some issues?

Had outages off and on all weekend.

Before today, the most recent post looks like having been Wednesday - presumably that's a reset to address the outages. Everything posted since Wed will have been lost in that case.

 

[Derpus]

Its alright I'll summarize for you

'hey that Jonny Hill bloke is a right **** isn't he...

yep sure is'.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So for next week. Drop smith and have Farrell at 10 or drop Farrell and have Dingwall at 12. Lawes to replace Hill and Ludlum at 6.

Drop coko (he is such a joke) and have the young lad.

Then change the backs and head coach, Change the tactics completely and use the subs properly.

Easy as pie.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Porter —-> Dingwall

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Porter —-> Dingwall

But Porter has one major flaw…..he plays for tigers.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Curry out due to concussion.