England vs Australia - 01/11/25

[Geordie]

Well i like this squad.
I do wonder if we have enough bulk, but we dont have any bulk available (Martin, T.Willis out etc) so we've gone for pace and explosive power.

Theres going to be some serious kicking and kick chase...but this team is built for it. High ball contested all over the park, and really aggressive defense and attacking that break down.
AND we have players who can attack ball in hand from all over the pitch...

It could be VERY effective.

 

[Saintjay]

I mean its nothing like the Jones era.

England have a lot of injures in the back row. CCS and Ilione recently picked up injures. That's 7 back row players out, you gotta make way sometimes. Also Earl has played most games at 8 for England. It's really easy to understand why we are here.

Please show Ford more respect, I hate this about England fans. To have the year he's had and the excellent Argentina tour to be talked about like this is silly.

If any of the back 3 go out Freeman goes to the back 3 and 1 of Earl or Pollock covers the centres. Most coaches would go with a 6-2 split if you have back row players who can cover centres.

Im with you on the 13 talk though, unless Lawrence is injured.

None of this is stupid.

I can see why people are unsure of the Ford / Smith thing. You can also say look at the year Finn had. Took Leinster to the cleaners. Made the Lions, and took England to 2nd in the Six Nations.

Not sure it's about disrespecting Ford. Personally I think he'll be better suited to the game plan against Aus. Borthwick bangs on about continuity, this selection isn't it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Made the Lions

Ehhhhh, Ford vs Argentina looked significantly better than Smith vs Dirt track sides
Tbh I'm surprised FS isn't starting, and do think he deserves to, but it's not a travesty that Ford is - a common thing said about Ford for England is that if he's in the side he should be starting not on the bench, and there he is. I feel better about 10. Ford, 23. F.Smith than I would about 10. F.Smith 23. M.Smith and M.Smith coming on at 15, cause that's the inevitable other option

It is weird that some people can only elevate one player by denigrating their rivals - there's a Bristol fan on Reddit who criticises literally everything Roebuck does just because a few seasons ago it was Roebuck vs Ibitoye for an England spot and Roebuck won it,
He's like that Japanese soldier still fighting the war decades later

 

[NickBD]

I can see why people are unsure of the Ford / Smith thing. You can also say look at the year Finn had. Took Leinster to the cleaners. Made the Lions, and took England to 2nd in the Six Nations.

Not sure it's about disrespecting Ford. Personally I think he'll be better suited to the game plan against Aus. Borthwick bangs on about continuity, this selection isn't it.

Sorry but referring to Ford as behind mr one trick spiral bomb pony is disrespectful to me. As I said in the other thread I've no issue picking Smith. I have issues with people who think picking Ford is a bad call when it isn't.

Borthwick bangs on about continuity? I mean I was one of Borthwicks biggest critics and I still question if he has the chops to win a world cup but a lot of this isn't his fault. The same front 5 is the same, the back row injuries is not his fault. He's picking his 9 and the he's picking the same 10 he did in the summer after excellent results. Dingwall was his 12 before his injury and the wingers are his first choice available. He's missing his first 3 15s so again not his fault. Only one Im with you and everyone else is 13, is an odd choice imo unless Lawrence is injured.

 

[BPM]

Well said @NickBD!

I still harbour some reservations about Borthwick, but in this calendar year I think we’ve only played fairly poorly once (Ireland) and we’ve played some nice rugby along the way.

Defence and attack looked good in Argentina and with Blackett coming in permanently he’s played a blinder.

It isn’t the 23 I would have picked, but I can mostly understand it.

FWIW, I’d have gone with Fin at 10, Lawrence at 13 and a 5:3 but not hugely different.

The props aren’t what I expected but I’m 100% supportive. Baxter and Heyes were genuinely excellent in Argentina and have both started the season well. Genge has barely played so it makes sense for him to be deployed off the bench and Stuart should do well bringing impact.

 

[Ddanno]

Yeah forgot Dingers was getting picked pre Lions. He's definitely dropped are best 13. Pretty sure Slade played one of the Argentina tests. Lawrence is ahead of Northmore/Atkinson after Argentina as well.

Northmore and Atkinson are both broken in any event

 

[Saintjay]

Ehhhhh, Ford vs Argentina looked significantly better than Smith vs Dirt track sides
Tbh I'm surprised FS isn't starting, and do think he deserves to, but it's not a travesty that Ford is - a common thing said about Ford for England is that if he's in the side he should be starting not on the bench, and there he is. I feel better about 10. Ford, 23. F.Smith than I would about 10. F.Smith 23. M.Smith and M.Smith coming on at 15, cause that's the inevitable other option

It is weird that some people can only elevate one player by denigrating their rivals - there's a Bristol fan on Reddit who criticises literally everything Roebuck does just because a few seasons ago it was Roebuck vs Ibitoye for an England spot and Roebuck won it,
He's like that Japanese soldier still fighting the war decades later

Got to be on the plane in the first place. Otherwise your just a northern Sam Prendergast.

 

[Scotty]

Well said @NickBD!

I still harbour some reservations about Borthwick, but in this calendar year I think we've only played fairly poorly once (Ireland) and we've played some nice rugby along the way.

Defence and attack looked good in Argentina and with Blackett coming in permanently he's played a blinder.

It isn't the 23 I would have picked, but I can mostly understand it.

FWIW, I'd have gone with Fin at 10, Lawrence at 13 and a 5:3 but not hugely different.

The props aren't what I expected but I'm 100% supportive. Baxter and Heyes were genuinely excellent in Argentina and have both started the season well. Genge has barely played so it makes sense for him to be deployed off the bench and Stuart should do well bringing impact.

5/3 with Lawrence at 23 would have been fine and one hell of an impact player coming on, I'd say give TCurry more time off.

Bringing on Genge Pollock and Lawrence at 50 min to would have a big impact on our attack and cover for injury. What ever happens if Ford and Smith are both in that back line it's abit small.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Why isn’t Sam Underhill 47?

 

[IT157]

Why isn't Sam Underhill 47?

Because he wasn't born in 1978.

 

[spartan32]

Roebuck has played a bit of 13 in most games this season for Sale, but not enough to really be a cover option there at international level (though SB doesn't seem to care about positional experience all that much)

How does Roebuck get in ahead of Arundell?! I just don’t get that. He’s ok, but Arundell is electric and threat. Not to even have him on the bench?!! Seems nuts to me. Don’t get me started on no Lawrence at all!!

 

[spartan32]

I mean its nothing like the Jones era.

England have a lot of injures in the back row. CCS and Ilione recently picked up injures. That's 7 back row players out, you gotta make way sometimes. Also Earl has played most games at 8 for England. It's really easy to understand why we are here.

Please show Ford more respect, I hate this about England fans. To have the year he's had and the excellent Argentina tour to be talked about like this is silly.

If any of the back 3 go out Freeman goes to the back 3 and 1 of Earl or Pollock covers the centres. Most coaches would go with a 6-2 split if you have back row players who can cover centres.

Im with you on the 13 talk though, unless Lawrence is injured.

None of this is stupid.

Agree on Ford. He’s a pretty class act and still young enough to be in contention for the WC in a couple of years, and he’s having a great season. The Smiths will get their time.

I don’t think Lawrence is injured. I think SB is trying to figure out how he could potentially get IFW, Arundell, Calouni, and Freeman all on the pitch at the same time in the future. Personally I think I’d quite like to see that happen in time, but to experiment to that level against a resurgent Aussie team seems crazy! You’ve got two excellent bath centre on top form ready to go. Leave Freeman on the wing and get this game under our belt, then play with Fiji maybe (no disrespect intended to the Fijians but they are arguably the least generous of the AIs).

All that being said it’s a pretty decent pack and bench for the forwards. We may just obliterate them up front and then it won’t matter what mad back line combos SB conjures up. Here’s hoping!!

 

[IT157]

How does Roebuck get in ahead of Arundell?! I just don't get that. He's ok, but Arundell is electric and threat. Not to even have him on the bench?!! Seems nuts to me. Don't get me started on no Lawrence at all!!

Because he's an overall better player.

Arundell has pace but he seems a bit one dimensional. Needs to improve in other areas of the game imo. His rugby IQ seems a bit off.

 

[spartan32]

Because he's an overall better player.

Arundell has pace but he seems a bit one dimensional. Needs to improve in other areas of the game imo. His rugby IQ seems a bit off.

Have you seen him for bath this season. He tracks the ball really well, gets passes off in contact. He’s powerful, fast and a complete menace. When he’s not scoring he’s assisting in scores. The lad scored a try in his first game against Australia at 19 by battering straight through 2 Aussie defenders! His name is constantly mentioned alongside the likes of IFW and Freeman. Not heard Roebucks name until today.

 

[IT157]

Have you seen him for bath this season. He tracks the ball really well, gets passes off in contact. He's powerful, fast and a complete menace. When he's not scoring he's assisting in scores. The lad scored a try in his first game against Australia at 19 by battering straight through 2 Aussie defenders! His name is constantly mentioned alongside the likes of IFW and Freeman. Not heard Roebucks name until today.

I think that says more about you than Roebuck.

Yes, I've seen him play this season for Bath. Arundell has potential, but he's got some improving to do. He's a bit of a flavour of the moment because of his pace. But his defense and ariel game would be exposed against tier 1 international opposition.

 

[Geordie]

Roebuck is ahead of Arundel, not in dispute at all.

 

[Scotty]

Have you seen him for bath this season. He tracks the ball really well, gets passes off in contact. He's powerful, fast and a complete menace. When he's not scoring he's assisting in scores. The lad scored a try in his first game against Australia at 19 by battering straight through 2 Aussie defenders! His name is constantly mentioned alongside the likes of IFW and Freeman. Not heard Roebucks name until today.

Roebuck is great under the high ball, a very balanced runner and also very consistent. He also isn't slow.

Arundell when their is less space will be exposed and will need more time to improve his all round game. He has more raw potential but I think Roebuck is ahead of him currently.

 

[Ddanno]

I definitely want to see Arundell against Fiji if he's training well.

I remain puzzled by Lawrence's absence, but at least he isn't being forced to play crash 12.

 

[Matthews]

It seems to me that SB clearly wants at 1 of his 2 wingers to be a high ball specialist for cross field kicks. I don't see Roebuck as competing against Arundell at all, he's really competing against Freeman who has been shifted inside to accomodate him for this one. Unfortunatly for Roebuck, he is also now up against Caluori, who has (potentially) extreme aerial ability coupled with elusive running and more pace - a prospect that is rightly getting SB all hot and bothered. Arundell is currently in competition with Murley to be Feyi-Waboso's understudy.

 

[Wasps92]

I can see why people are unsure of the Ford / Smith thing. You can also say look at the year Finn had. Took Leinster to the cleaners. Made the Lions, and took England to 2nd in the Six Nations.

Not sure it's about disrespecting Ford. Personally I think he'll be better suited to the game plan against Aus. Borthwick bangs on about continuity, this selection isn't it.

I do feel it’s harsh on Smith tbh as he held the shirt at the end of the 6 Nations and has played really well for England. It’s hardly his fault he wasn’t available for the Argentina Tests.

I like Ford but but his suspect defence is worrying.