England vs New Zealand - 15/11/2025

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Looks to me like he’s prioritised impact off the bench over selecting a team that can actually stay in the game for the first 60 mins. Hope to be proven wrong though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very disappointed that I correctly, while joking, predicted CCS on the bench covering lock

 

[TommiG88]

I suppose it isn’t terrible.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Are we safe to say George Ford is now the preferred N.10.

 

[TommiG88]

Are we safe to say George Ford is now the preferred N.10.

Nope. Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if Fin is playing in the 6nations as starter

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

For the first time this series I think Earl actually will be first choice to move into the centres if there’s an injury. What’s the alternative if Dingwall goes down? 12. Lawrence 13. Roebuck 14. Steward 15. Smith? Smith straight to 12? Steward to 12 with Smith at 15?

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Nope. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Fin is playing in the 6nations as starter

If he sees him as the likely starter at the World Cup he should be starting him for this

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For the first time this series I think Earl actually will be first choice to move into the centres if there's an injury. What's the alternative if Dingwall goes down? 12. Lawrence 13. Roebuck 14. Steward 15. Smith? Smith straight to 12? Steward to 12 with Smith at 15?

Pollock is gonna end up on the wing, calling it now

 

[NickBD]

Very disappointed that I correctly, while joking, predicted CCS on the bench covering lock

I think in this situation when your down Chessum and Martin I don't hate it. When Underhill was back at 7 CCS was never starting over Earl at 8 against NZ. Factor in they might want to manage his mins too because he got injured.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

TBH I'd drop any of the starting backrowers just to put CCS at 8 at this stage
He needs the minutes/caps, and looks like he's gonna be the real deal

I guess the real issue is not having anyone to cover lock from the bench and relying on CCS covering from 8 (and they subbed him at 50 odd mins on the weekend, so are there questions around his gas tank?)

I get why they've done it, I just don't like it

 

[Ddanno]

Pollock is gonna end up on the wing, calling it now

Stop your predictions, Mystic Olyy

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

TBH I'd drop any of the starting backrowers just to put CCS at 8 at this stage
He needs the minutes/caps, and looks like he's gonna be the real deal

I guess the real issue is not having anyone to cover lock from the bench and relying on CCS covering from 8 (and they subbed him at 50 odd mins on the weekend, so are there questions around his gas tank?)

I get why they've done it, I just don't like it

Think it shows a real lack of faith in Isiekwe.

I really can’t figure out what Borthwick thinks of Isiekwe. He seems to select him for squads every single time he’s available, which you’d think means he likes him, yet he never selects him for his 23 man teams. He was the only member of the original touring party to Argentina not to pick up any game time, and now he’s being completely overlooked again. Surely it’s time to give one of Batley or Bamber a proper look in the squad if Isiekwe is considered to be a worse international lock than a 6’4 back rower.

 

[BPM]

I don't necessarily think that's the case. Perhaps it's more that Isiekwe is not seen as an impact player - he either starts (which was never going to happen) or he's not in the 23. Conversely, CCS has shown himself to be a good impact player.

Small point of order, but Fasogbon didn't play on the summer tour either.

Not the side I’d have picked though - I’d have had Genge, Stuart, Curry (at 6) and Fin all starting.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't necessarily think that's the case. Perhaps it's more that Isiekwe is not seen as an impact player - he either starts (which was never going to happen) or he's not in the 23. Conversely, CCS has shown himself to be a good impact player.

Maybe, but then why didn't he start any games in the Summer tour?

Small point of order, but Fasogbon didn't play on the summer tour either.

Fasogbon wasn't part of the original squad. Was called up for Iyogun.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I hate 6:2 at the best of times and arguably Pollock is the only one who wouldn’t have made the antiquated concept of a ‘starting XV’. But I get why it’s been done. Doesn’t mean I have to like it…or won’t start bleating on again about restricting subs.

I think NZ have been 5:3 on tour so far and there’s a malevolent part of me that hopes they come on strong in the final quarter and nick it.

But in reality, and not often you say this about the ABs, this will be a really disappointing one to lose.

 

[OllyM97]

Like the back-row but a bit worried about the front 5. New Zealand will target the scrum. Like IFW and Roebuck on the wings and I actually think Ford at 10 is a good move. I’m not totally sold on Dingwall at 12 and I still have my doubts about Steward at FB at elite test match level. Having said that, I don’t think you have to be amazing for 80 minutes to beat this current ABs team, you just have to execute in the key moments. Put it this way. we’ve got more firepower than Scotland have and that Scottish pack fronted up well to the ABs forwards throughout. It will be tight, but I back us by edge it by less than 5.

 

[IT157]

An annoyingly narrow loss to New Zealand. Ruing missed chances where we should have won the game.

 

[OllyM97]

An annoyingly narrow loss to New Zealand. Ruing missed chances where we should have won the game.

A close, annoying loss to New Zealand has certainly become an English trait over the last 10-12 years. The ABs' last 5 wins against us have been by 3,1,1,7 and 2 points. To be brutally honest, id rather have the Pumas' record against NZ over the last few years than ours. They've copped some absolute drubbings but have won 4 times against the ABs in their last 12 attempts. I don't give a toss about close losses, they are absolutely meaningless - it's about winning. Our inability to beat New Zealand on a consistent basis gets right on my nerves.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I like that team actually, given the circumstances. I'm pretty anti-Dingwall, but he's better than trying someone entirely new (or Farrell) against the ABs. Lawrence looked very good last week, if a bit rusty, so excited to see him start.

Despite that, I'm pessimistic about a win too. I think we're going to really miss Chessum, he brought some much needed physicality (overused word) the last two games.