England XV vs France XV - 21/06/25

[Reiser99]

Roebuck was pretty good. Spencer not bad...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Do we spend too much much time focusing on physical development and too little on mental? Too many English players keep making too many bad decisions under pressure and have been for too long.

 

[Grizwald]

God that awful, coverage, officials etc.

That last try didn’t get much of a luck despite doing so many other late TMO interventions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Dan, Dombrandt and Hill kinda confirmed fears

Provisional stats on RugbyPass have Hill making 4 tackles, and missing 2
In 82 mins as a blindside flanker that is embarrassing

 

[NickBD]

Was a very 2024 England performance. For 60 minutes did ok with a healthy lead, then replacements, we stopped trying to play rugby and just kicked the ball away, conceded all the momentum and lost.

 

[Abraxaz]

Well that was flashback to the start of the Borthwick era.

Another loss to add to Borthwicks legacy.

Next games against a very strong Argentina side. Not sure we will be able to overcome.

The scrum looked ok, maul set up looked good. Couple of players put their hand up to challenge the 1st team.

The bad, defence again was poor. Shape was all over the place from being to tight to too spread out, support runners unseen throughout, maul defence was poor.

Would love to see ford play like he plays for sale, the random kicks are killing the game

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Provisional stats on RugbyPass have Hill making 4 tackles, and missing 2

This has been upgraded to 6 made and 2 missed, which is better but still less than Rodd, Davison and Dombrandt, off the bench, Pepper, who played half an hour less, and half as many as Coles

Be interesting to see if he makes the test side over the summer, just feels like that's very much not a SB 6 performance

Wouldn't be surprised to see Coles at 6 and Ewels start

 

[Becca]

Well, that was an interesting experience.

Myself and my Mum were both logged in to good old RugbyPass until she got kicked off. We managed to get her back on and then I was kicked off. I couldn’t log back in and then a few mins later, Mum got logged out again.
Fantastic service from them today !
We finally managed to watch on YouTube.

Some poor performances today in not nice conditions, I grant you, but this tour is looking a bit scary. The one plus point is that I can watch the games on Sky instead of going through that palaver again ! Hopefully, YouTube will have the American match so we can watch on tv instead of not watching on the app

I also agree about the commentators….they make your brain bleed .

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Out celebrating wedding anniversary today. Doesn’t sound like I missed much!

 

[Becca]

Dan, Dombrandt and Hill kinda confirmed fears

Provisional stats on RugbyPass have Hill making 4 tackles, and missing 2
In 82 mins as a blindside flanker that is embarrassing

Are there stats as reliable as their app though ?

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Out celebrating wedding anniversary today. Doesn't sound like I missed much!

Oooh, snap.
Except that we stayed in
And haven't got married yet.
But hey, we've been engaged for 21 years today

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Oooh, snap.
Except that we stayed in
And haven't got married yet.
But hey, we've been engaged for 21 years today

Hope you’ve had at least 3 or 4 stag dos in that time then. 21 years, must be a patient partner.

On the subject of Hill, he’s a bit of a show pony by the looks of things. Had high hopes but he just didn’t put in the work. You won’t win test matches with him at 6 playing like that.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Oooh, snap.
Except that we stayed in
And haven't got married yet.
But hey, we've been engaged for 21 years today

Congratulations! 23 for us plus a 7 year probation period.

On Hill, it’s hard to believe that’s he’s not consistently been doing what club coaches have asked, especially in this data driven era. Whether that translates to the international game is perhaps another matter.

 

[Geordie]

Didn't see the game in the end ..but the reviews don't really read top great.

If correct, then im glad Atkinson had a good game, and Dan needs to go. And yes Hill has probably played his last England game...that's a horror show of stats for an international 6.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Didn't see the game in the end ..but the reviews don't really read top great.

If correct, then im glad Atkinson had a good game, and Dan needs to go. And yes Hill has probably played his last England game...that's a horror show of stats for an international 6.

Dan seems to miss his darts all the time and still gets picked somehow so maybe SB isn’t all data driven?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honestly I kinda wish we got to see more of Hill at 8 when Diamond started playing him there

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

First test for me would be
1. Baxter, 2. George, 3. Heyes
4. Clark, 5. Isiekwe
6. CCS, 7. Curry, 8. Willis
9. JVP, 10. Ford
12. Atkinson, 13. Dingwall
11. Roebuck, 14. Murley (should be OHC), 15. Carpenter

16. Langdon, 17. Rodd, 18. AOF
19. Coles, 20. Hill/Pepper
21. Quirke, 22. Atkinson, 23. Ojomoh

 

[Ddanno]

Pepper over Hill for me, he was miles better.

 

[Reiser99]

It does seem like Hill is a bit of a highlight reel player. There is certainly no room for him and Dombrandt on the wings. You can get away with one if you have the power elsewhere, but certainly not two forwards who like to hang out on the wing.

 

[Geordie]

How did Coles play?

Can you rewatch the game on Rugby pass?

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Agreed. Think the best thing Pearson could do for his England career would be to push for game time at 8 at Northampton. Probably unlikely to happen now with Chick joining them though.

I totally agree with this. When I look at his physique and his ball carrying ability he looks like an 8 to me.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Didn't see the game in the end ..but the reviews don't really read top great.

If correct, then im glad Atkinson had a good game, and Dan needs to go. And yes Hill has probably played his last England game...that's a horror show of stats for an international 6.

As with other luxury giraffes - it depends what he's being asked to do.
If his task is to hang out on the wing, giving the inside backs confidence to go wide knowing they've got a pacey backrower out there to support them and pull their arses out of the fire if they misjudge slightly, you can't then drop him for not hanging around midfield or close to every ruck.
The question becomes how to balance the back5 to free him up to do that work, and if it's worth the sacrifice.
I can confidently say that Hill (and Croft before him) is perfectly capable of playing like an orthodox BSF - when (consistently) given that role

It's exactly the same criticism fans had of Tom Croft. We've got a player with a different USP, so we task him to do different things, and then judge him on the things he's been asked not to do.
The problem is the 25% success rate, not the pure number - and even then there's always nuance that needs to be looked at.


Delighted for Seb Atkinson - England's MotM

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Just watched the highlights and looks like England have found the answer to their inside centre problems with Seb Atkinson.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SB said Carpenter came off with a tight hamstring and they're not anticipating it being "serious"

Kinda don't believe them considering how much of a reshuffle it required, and them saying similar about players in the past which ended up requiring a month or two off

Hopefully it is the case, though, as I think he was one of a very select few to increase their stock yesterday
Would be a big ask to overtake Steward and Furbank, but if Furbank were to not make it back, and we went back to a 5:3 bench (unlikely) then Beard covering centre/wing and Slade apparently covering 10 from the pitch (or even Spencer covering 10) could leave the door open for Carpenter in the 23 shirt

 

[Ddanno]

How did Coles play?

Can you rewatch the game on Rugby pass?

Yep. It's on RP and on youtube

 

[LIONSxv]

Fair play to the French in that for 3/4 of the game they were on the back foot and lived off English mistakes.
For all the criticism Galthie etc el this is the type of game where they would of historically shipped 40+ points.
I thought Atkinson looked good, Slade was again poor apart from two nice touch finders. Baxter seems to have gone backwards a bit but is still a baby in prop terms. Hill looked tired, so possibly not a fair reflection on him.

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

Bit of a weird stat bur according to RP 3/4 of our turnovers came from the bench with Slade the only starter to get one and none were by the starting back row.

I did think it look like we didn't compete well at the breakdown.

 

[BrokenWing]

Yep. It's on RP and on youtube

It’s also on the England rugby YouTube channel if you don’t fancy giving rugby pass the view it doesn’t deserve.

 

[Ddanno]

Bit of a weird stat bur according to RP 3/4 of our turnovers came from the bench with Slade the only starter to get one and none were by the starting back row.

I did think it look like we didn't compete well at the breakdown.

The breakdown was an absolute mess all game. Concepts like 'the gate', 'sealing off' and 'off feet' seemed to have been teleported to another dimension

 

[higgik]

This has been upgraded to 6 made and 2 missed, which is better but still less than Rodd, Davison and Dombrandt, off the bench, Pepper, who played half an hour less, and half as many as Coles

Be interesting to see if he makes the test side over the summer, just feels like that's very much not a SB 6 performance

Wouldn't be surprised to see Coles at 6 and Ewels start

The balance of back row, like all parts of the team needs to work.
Willis doing the hard yards, Pepper the rucks, leaving Hill to work out wide is great, but only if the ball is getting wide, where the forward can make good yards in contact.
The game plan needs to be clear and then pick a team to suit.
The issue with SB is that no one likes his game plan and so he picks players by media selection and then tries to fit them to his game plan.
If he want to keep it tight, then pick a big pack, Ford at 10, a big 12, and 2 big wingers to punch holes and to compete aerially.