Fixing the rucks.

[The_Wol]

Well I've been thinking about this for a while and it is what makes or breaks the fun of a rugby game.

Rugby 06 boasted greatly improved rucks.... yeah great they were still more boring than watching a game of chess in slow motion.
Rugby 08 rucks were worse because you accidentally pressed Alt (the cheat button) and you got a penalty against you.
The rucks in both these games were boring, required no real imput from the player, and served more to make the game slower.

How to improve them:
1. Although Rugby Challenge 2006 did this, the button mashing option of forcing a turnover/keeping the ball on your side isn't perfect but it makes things more interesting.
2. Make sure player ratings, weight and position and when they get to a ruck come into play, You don't want David Pocock getting there first after the attacking team has been tackled and for Shane Williams to just come in and push him over and keep the ball for his team, In truth David Pocock would quicky eat Shane Williams and the ball carrier then win the ball, we need realism in all of this, you can't have light players like Saia Faingaa blowing over the ruck and knocking Nemiah Tialata for 6.
3. Make the player(as in computer operator) work for the ball, again back to the button mashing option but it at least makes the rucks interactive.
4. Graphics, the ruck animations for Rugby 06 and 08 were horrible, it doesn't take me 8 seconds to lie down over the ball (A massive penalty but rules are for pansy's) we want some mongrel in there, we want people rolling out of the rucks, we want people getting knocked over, and we want some sort of struggle..... a counter ruck in Rugby 08 looked like a scrum that didn't have any animation....

Feel free to add your thoughts to this.

 

[Hamez]

rugby 08 you hardly ever get penalised when using the cheat button. you could slow down play so much..... I loved it!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/...uck-Maul-System-Improvement-Suggestions/page5 !!!

 

[jawmalawm24]

I agree Woldog the rucks need sorting because I hate when I receive the ball from a kickoff and I've got like 4-5 players in the ruck just for the opposition to turn the ball over with 2-3 players because my halfbacks taking years to get there. It's also near impossible to maintain the ball when you're hot on attack and in the oppositions 22m even if they haven't got anyone there to ruck apparently being tackled by 1 person can turnover the ball against 3 players wtf?

I also think the scrums need adjusting too because there's not really anything in them either.

 

[markshaw]

yeah if theres no halfback there there should be an option to just pick and go etc. and as ive said before, the 'jonah lomu rugby' style rucks are the best as long as the player that hits it is the right size/position to make a differnce. simple. highlight the player and run in there. do it 3 times in quick succession and you win your ruck fast

 

[Jayatron]

Like a real rugby match the ruck is the key area, games are won and lost here. H.B. needs to move away from the rucking and mauling systems of the previous E.A. games and come up with a fast moving competitive system which enables quick attacking ball but also a competitive interesting defensive system.
Instead of focusing on the rucks themselves or even the quality of the players in your team, which is of course important, maybe we should look at the position of the ruck and the surrounding players of the ruck. What I mean is just like a real game; we've all played rugby before and know that the steal is not always on. For example within certain playing scenarios steals should not be contested at every breakdown, such as pick and goes, tackle areas where there are numerous supporting players and so on. However when a winger gets isolated, like any real game the jackal is on. My two cents on a steal is a sort of a mini game, something I've already mentioned in an earlier thread. At a ruck, when a steal is on a series of random buttons will appear just above the ruck, successful button combination will lead to your team gaining the ball or if done wrong a penalty given away, of course as the attacking player you can hold onto the ball in a chance to keep the ball or give away a penalty.
However it is here in this breakdown that stats start to come into bigger affect, depending on the player's stats and field position a turnover would prove to be easy for the likes of Richie McCaw, three or four buttons shown slowly, but as for poor old Ronan O'Gara a lot harder, seven or eight shown quickly.
Again getting quick ball from the base of the ruck should depend on how close supporting players are and how good the players stats are. For example 6th phase of attack on the 22 with your blindside and open side supporting your centre should enable for very quick ball, or your centre gets isolated and a successful button combination is done before your six or seven can clear out the defender.
For one sided games, such as the All Blacks vs USA just allow for more turn over opportunities. Let me explain; just like the kicking rule where players have to be out of a 10 meter circle, supporting players for the United States are close to the ball carrier but due to the All Blacks superior overall team rating it isn't close enough and a turnover is then on, which does not have to be a player stealing on the ground but perhaps a counter ruck instead. It's simple maths for the game designer, if supporting players are not within a certain radius and if the defending teams/players stats are high enough then a ruck should be contested.
This does make stats important but like mentioned above not the main focus as only every fourth, fifth or twentieth ruck, depending on field position and supporting players, would be contested.
What do you think? Hard to explain but hopefully I've explained well enough, please give feedback and ideas.

 

[Sam Hanning]

I rekon that the buttons above the ruck thing wouldn't work out sorry. As woldog said HB Studios are creating a video game for Rugby! It's Rugby for goodness sake not pussie football! I want to see people like McCaw get mongrel and try to rip the ball from the clutches of Vito then see massive Tialata get in there and smash McCaw out of the ruck so that they keep the ball and can spread it out wide to Gear who awaits a massive dumptruck tackle from Ross strait into a massive muddy puddle on the surface of the cake tin, not massive mongrel forwards having a little push against pure nothing to magicly make the ball roll straight through the dead manikin lying dead smack in the middle of a ruck because first of all that's not rugby and most importantly that's not realistic. Make the look of a ruck make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up because big boys pushing against pure oxygen isn't going to sell it for me

 

[Rams5]

Why not have a system similar to the wrestling of the Blockers in Madden, where you can enter the ruck (via the gate of course) and use the right analog stick to either clean out by pushing up, try wrestle past and disrupt the ball by moving the analog stick to the sides or seal the ball and risk a penatly by moving the analog stick down. Nearby players would also look to join the ruck or cover the backline depending on their position and predetermined role.

 

[Jayatron]

The rucking system defo needs to be worked out. The whole thing of players just smashing into each other and random turnovers at the breakdown because you have McCaw sounds like rugby 08 to be honest. Remember having Lawrence Dallaglio in your team and you win rucks, at random, and the commentator would say "what a turnover by Lawrence Dallaglio" Thats not rugby. Last time I was involved in a ruck, last night, it was a competitive contest for the ball. We need some sort of system which will reflect the competitive nature of the break down.

 

[mikeeboy]

They can't get the ruck right in real rugby, another rule change this year I believe so how can we expect a video game to get it right. Graphically it would be virtually impossible to replicate a real ruck, there are bodies everywhere, every ruck looks different, i doubt you can incorporate sporting animations with the rag doll physics that you see in other games, which is what we would need.

At the end of the day, we need something that nods its head towards reality in terms of ball retention/stealing whilst remaining fair. Personally I think the Jonah Lomu system still holds good. With good animations, a stealing mechanism (whether a time limit for 1st person in or a mini game) , and then weight, momentum and numbers determining the speed of ball retrieval.

 

[rugbyman9]

i hate when a tackle is made u can have a player standing rite next to it but he wont join the ruck the 3 players on the other side of the field will grrrrrrrrrrr

 

[eddieraver]

Maybe the player should be able to quickly choose how many players to commit to the ruck, button bashing in order to win a ruck sounds hideous and will do nothing for people with RSI! (You could have some kind of slider or gauge which you need to hit on the mark or within a margin of that mark to win the ruck, the margin for winning the ruck would be finer when your playing good teams and larger for crap ones)

If a player commits too few forwards he quickly loses possession. Also Id like to see more options for slowing the ball in the ruck situation (If thats not already been added).

 

[dan the man]

The rucks should be as complicated as possible with bodies lying all over the ground, half the players offside and coming in from all angles... that would make it alot more realistic

In all seriousness though, i'm not a fan of the button mashing idea would seem too random.
Having players with high Scrummaging, Rucking, Mauling and Ball winning stats should help but there needs to be an option to use your hands without it being illegal... if your on your feet, your shoulders are above your hips and you enter through the back of the ruck there should be no problem.

note: Richie McCaw should be able to turn over any ball from anywhere on the field... Haha

 

[Faatau82]

Basically the tactical game should work like this:

MAUL:

Basically, be able to make a maul (depending on the players who are available in support will affect it's success) by quickly activating it (by pressing a button when it's available) and then you 'win' the maul 'mini-game' by keeping a meter in the middle by balancing the L1 and R1 buttons, and after a certain yardage, the opponent will collapse the maul, or you haven't done enough to keep in going.

RUCK:

The player goes to ground when you press a combo, like R1 and X for example (manually to ground), or when he's tackled. You have to press a button to stop the player from being rolled over foremost, and once you do that, the players can join the ruck. The game should then be all about the ruck, the game can zoom in and the controls become ruck controls specifically, again like a mini-game. Like JLR.

So the player is under the ruck. You can press a button to add more forwards. Then once you've done that a ruck will start to be contested, assuming an icon for quick ball hasn't appeared let's say. You can then select options like 'pick and drive', 'go to ground' (for a user-controlled ruck) 'pass to backs' or 'cheat/slow the ball down'. You can use combos like L1 and L2 to go left and R1 and R2 to go right perhaps for forwards play.

There should be quick rucks, and quick turnover ball like in real rugby.

SCRUM:

The scrums in Rugby 08 were fine, but kind of pointless as they didn't do anything. You shouldn't be able to turn a scrum 180 so easily and a bit more realism with the actual 'digging-in' movements. I'd suggest 'tactical options' with the buttons, like using the props specifically using L1 and R1 perhaps, so a scrum will collapse or be affected by the ability of the opposing prop. And also you can give a button for a pack shove. A nice animation would be the number 8 giving it a bit of welly with a button action.

So basically, a button to hook initially, and once you've contested and hooked it back (press and hold for a slow controlled hook?) at least 6 seconds of tactical scrum 'mini-game' i.e prop battering etc. Once the ball is won, again.. you can choose from pick and drive, just like in rugby 08, depending on where it comes back to using your skill. That part was quite good actually.

LINEOUTS:

The same as rugby 08 pretty much, but MUST be able to call a quick lineout and short lineouts, both quick and decided. The 'play' for the lineout call is easy.. you have a 4 button combo to press, so like.. X O Y Z o whatever buttons you'd have. You'd need maybe 10+ 'plays' you can learn. For quick plays, you can have a one-button play. Easy.

And that's my two pence.

 

[Duckdee]

Interesting idea for the lineouts, not sure if I like it or not, though. How would you compete against your opponent's throw?

 

[beerholder]

Interesting idea for the lineouts, not sure if I like it or not, though. How would you compete against your opponent's throw?

That's the part of knowing the opponent strategy. In Rugby08 it was easy to figure out that if the ball was inside the 22, the throw had tol be short to be carried out by the maul.