Grid and Walk On Girls

[Which Tyler]

But you're still the only person being offended.
Oh, and this also isn't the politics board btw.

As for the models argument, they're there for reasons beyond ***illation, as had been said. Models are there to make clothes look good etc etc. Walk on girls are there to... Erm.. keep the player company in case they get lonely on that 12 step walk? Grid girls are there to... Erm... In case the driver forgets the number written on his car?
People on the beach tend to be there to be on the beach, not to be gawked at by strangers.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But you're still the only person being offended.
Oh, and this also isn't the politics board btw.

As for the models argument, they're there for reasons beyond ***illation, as had been said. Models are there to make clothes look good etc etc. Walk on girls are there to... Erm.. keep the player company in case they get lonely on that 12 step walk? Grid girls are there to... Erm... In case the driver forgets the number written on his car?
People on the beach tend to be there to be on the beach, not to be gawked at by strangers.

Walk on Girls advertise in darts don't they? Like in Horse Racing usually a bookies sash or some crap.

 

[Which Tyler]

No idea, have never watched darts, and never knew there were such things as walk on girls before this thread. I assumed from the name that their job was to walk on and look pretty.
If they're advertising, then that seems a legitimate use of a model TBH

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No idea, have never watched darts, and never knew there were such things as walk on girls before this thread. I assumed from the name that their job was to walk on and look pretty.
If they're advertising, then that seems a legitimate use of a model TBH

I'm just going off google images.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

A fair comment, Ncurd, but I too am an F1 fan - so why should I also not speak up about something when it is the sport I love and give my support towards the Grid girls staying?

Personally I think that the whole thing has been handled wrongly; there should have been a moratorium about this issue and all sides should have been able to have given arguments for and against. That at least would have been more democratic, not just to ban something because you fear the morality/puritan mob/modern day Mary Whitehouse wannabes getting angry.

As TigsMan said, where does it stop?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

I'm just going off google images.

Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

But you're still the only person being offended.
Oh, and this also isn't the politics board btw.

As for the models argument, they're there for reasons beyond ***illation, as had been said. Models are there to make clothes look good etc etc. Walk on girls are there to... Erm.. keep the player company in case they get lonely on that 12 step walk? Grid girls are there to... Erm... In case the driver forgets the number written on his car?
People on the beach tend to be there to be on the beach, not to be gawked at by strangers.

I'm still the only person being offended?

How? I disagree with you and others and that makes me offended by some measure of reasoning?

If anything, you and Ncurd sound as if you are always offended and butt-hurt by my answers. Very precious, I am almost tempted to make you two my pets (even if one has a slight case of posting tourettes).

As I said, if women are the issue then replace them with men or transgender people. Of course, that would shoot the argument dead in the water.

As for beaches, sometimes I go to a nudist one - should that be banned because boobies and willies might offend small minded people? Let's go trample on the rights of people and groups we disagree with?

Which Tyler is Mary Whitehouse and I claim my Morrison's vouchers.

 

[Which Tyler]

Okay, okay, so your mouth frothing rants complaining about this issue and complaining that your rights to be a perv aren't you being offended, and suggesting that it is is worthy of neg rep (or was that pointing out that "other sports" =/= "politics"?).

Meanwhile, everyone else's "meh, doesn't really bother me" is them being highly offended, censorship of the highest order, thought police, political correctness gone mad... Etc etc etc.

GG you (or your online persona, at least) absolutely are a cartoon character right wing biggot and the very specialist of all the flakes that ever snowed. You also fail at every test of logical thought, and have utterly failed to find anyone who's offended by grid girls or walk on girls, let alone anyone who's attempted to censor... anything.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Okay, okay, so your mouth frothing rants co planning about this issue and co planning that your rights to be a perfect aren't you being offended, and suggesting that it is is worthy of neg rep.

Meanwhile, everyone else's "meh, doesn't really bother me" is them being highly offended, censorship of the highest order, thought police, political correctness gone mad... Etc etc etc.

GG you absolutely are a cartoon character right wing biggot and the very specialist of all the flakes that ever snowed. You also fail at every test of logical thought, and have utterly failed to find anyone who's offended by grid girls or walk on girls, let alone anyone who's attempted to censor... anything.

Oh dear, really have struck a nerve haven't I?

Frothing at the mouth rants - err, how can you say that when you can't even see me from your Ivory Tower in Tewkesbury?

Let me just take a minute to get a breath back, because your post is total comedy - it's up there with Morecambe & Wise, Dave Allen, David Chappelle and co. which is quite an achievement. I thought I had seen it all but THAT was hilarious.

I am a right wing bigot (only one g in bigot by the way - tut tut, standards are slipping there!) and a snowflake? Sure, if you say so, keep the insults coming. I guess that anybody who doesn't agree with you is an automatic Hitler? Happy to be called that too, if it helps.

I guess that Susie Wolff is also a nasty right-winger for having a similarly opposing view as you?

http://www.cityam.com/239248/f1-gri...ssador-and-former-williams-driver-susie-wolff

The following quote from UnracedF1.com well and truly nails it IMO, not that I expect you'll agree:

'So if Grid Girls do offend minorities and underestimate woman rights… why these minorities and supporting groups don't do something about the situation of woman in Saudi Arabia? Or how about those beauty contests for young girls aged between 4 and 9 in America, which really is terrible? Why not make more efforts for woman who got forces to go in prostitution? In my opinion these are true points they should fight for or at least do something with. Sure Grid Girls look amazing, and for the sport they are a great marketing tool. I can't deny that!

As mentioned before the issue about Grid Girls is that some groups seem them as Sex symbols, objects, not as humans that just do their work. However, if you see them as sex symbols or as objects there is something wrong with your own state of mind. The problem is the current society we live in, were traditions and so on have to be changed, because minorities get offended by it. There are plenty of examples these days were minorities demand changes because they are minorities. I remember from early days that we respected minorities and lived together? And these days' people are afraid to tell their thought. Afraid it will affect themselves as person, and place them in a bad spot.'

For the record, I would rather vote the Teletubbies into office than Corbyn, May, Cable, Sturgeon, Bolton etc. I think that they are all similarly useless and the country would be better run by Civil Servants who - let's face it - do most of the work anyway.

I'm also so right-wing that I donate to the Malala Fund and marched against FGM. No, wait, anybody who does good things and does not adhere to the strict ethical rules of Which Tyler is an unworthy virtue-signaller right?

At least I am not you, that would be the biggest insult ever. If you represent the tolerant, loving, caring and liberal left then quite frankly I'd sooner be a nasty right-winger any day of the week.

Right, after that belly laugh I need a good strong drink of British tea. Oops did I say British - trigger warning!!

 

[SharksFan86]

I'm not fussed whether grid/walk on girls are at races/events or not and I've seen some supposed darts fans say they won't go again haha

I just hate the fact these girls are losing a living, they will make good money promoting and doing these jobs which they want and are happy to do which helps pay their bills etc

People can have opinions but don't take these girls jobs away because a minority of people don't like it.

Don't like it don't watch it.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Barry Hearn actually tried to introduce walk on girls to snooker a couple of years back, so this is a turnaround and shoes he isn't doing it out of liberal principles. He is a shrewd fellow so he'll be doing it for financial reasons.

The recent BDO tournament had a decent 16 player women's tournament so perhaps he sees a potential emerging market there too. The "female dollar" is becoming commercially more important and will be being factored into calculations. Darts doesn't strike me as a sport most suitable to be "family friendly", but maybe I've got a more limited imagination than Mr Hearn?

I can't think of a topic that would get me less animated however and it has proper eff all to do with religion. The bottom line is that F1 and darts are owned by individuals who are free to tweak the presentation of their events as they see fit.

I'd sooner have a go at F1 for courting fairly repugnant regimes (Azerbaijan, Bahrain) to host races than for this.

 

[Which Tyler]

Barry Hearn actually tried to introduce walk on girls to snooker a couple of years back, so this is a turnaround and shoes he isn't doing it out of liberal principles. He is a shrewd fellow so he'll be doing it for financial reasons.

The recent BDO tournament had a decent 16 player women's tournament so perhaps he sees a potential emerging market there too. The "female dollar" is becoming commercially more important and will be being factored into calculations. Darts doesn't strike me as a sport most suitable to be "family friendly", but maybe I've got a more limited imagination than Mr Hearn?

I can't think of a topic that would get me less animated however and it has proper eff all to do with religion. The bottom line is that F1 and darts are owned by individuals who are free to tweak the presentation of their events as they see fit.

I'd sooner have a go at F1 for courting fairly repugnant regimes (Azerbaijan, Bahrain) to host races than for this.

Yup.
It's worth remembering that neither of these positions has come about due to outside pressure. There have been zero demonstrations, zero letters have been written to MPs, and zero polls have been conducted. The tournament organisers have decided this entriely off their own bats.

As for F1, I couldn't agree more, and is why I gave up on the sport about 6-7 years ago

 

[GarethGriffiths]

I'm not fussed whether grid/walk on girls are at races/events or not and I've seen some supposed darts fans say they won't go again haha

I just hate the fact these girls are losing a living, they will make good money promoting and doing these jobs which they want and are happy to do which helps pay their bills etc

People can have opinions but don't take these girls jobs away because a minority of people don't like it.

Don't like it don't watch it.

This, in a nutshell.

 

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

It's great that so many people are pretending that their main concern is the loss of employment for these women, but the only people responsible for them no longer having a role to play within the sport are those who cannot look beyond them being eye candy. If it truly is your concern, perhaps your efforts are better spent asking the people who run multi-million pound sports why they can't find positions for the women that more viewers actually want to watch. It would, after-all, be fantastic PR if they said they would be willing to offer alternative employment.

I understand the excitement of a PC brigade banning everything conspiracy theory, but it's simply a commercial decision by the broadcasters and the governing bodies based on the belief that the amount of enjoyment gained from looking at the Walk on Girls is outweighed by the people who don't care for it. Nothing has been banned or outlawed, PDC or F1 could reverse their decision in an instant if they feel that balance has shifted. **** it, they could have 500 naked women bringing out each player if they felt like the benefits outweighed the negative effects. I have no interest in F1, but my enjoyment of darts is going to increase (albeit slightly) now that the men aren't escorted out by models and crucially will be more positive about the sport when it comes up in conversations. I don't think that is a minority position at all.

More to the point, how is this any different to every single industry in the world? Unfortunately people lose their jobs all the time as companies make decisions based what they think the market needs/wants, and it's not the responsibility of the consumers to change their attitudes to prevent that.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

It's great that so many people are pretending that their main concern is the loss of employment for these women, but the only people responsible for them no longer having a role to play within the sport are those who cannot look beyond them being eye candy. If it truly is your concern, perhaps your efforts are better spent asking the people who run multi-million pound sports why they can't find positions for the women that more viewers actually want to watch. It would, after-all, be fantastic PR if they said they would be willing to offer alternative employment.

I understand the excitement of a PC brigade banning everything conspiracy theory, but it's simply a commercial decision by the broadcasters and the governing bodies based on the belief that the amount of enjoyment gained from looking at the Walk on Girls is outweighed by the people who don't care for it. Nothing has been banned or outlawed, PDC or F1 could reverse their decision in an instant if they feel that balance has shifted. **** it, they could have 500 naked women bringing out each player if they felt like the benefits outweighed the negative effects. I have no interest in F1, but my enjoyment of darts is going to increase (albeit slightly) now that the men aren't escorted out by models and crucially will be more positive about the sport when it comes up in conversations. I don't think that is a minority position at all.

More to the point, how is this any different to every single industry in the world? Unfortunately people lose their jobs all the time as companies make decisions based what they think the market needs/wants, and it's not the responsibility of the consumers to change their attitudes to prevent that.

A few points:

1. How do you know, for sure, that people criticising the decision to remove these ladies from their employment is a pretence? I think that is a very dodgy statement to be making as you don't know what people are thinking for sure. To me, they are girls doing (or were doing) a job, nothing else. If somebody sees them as sexual or sex objects, maybe that person is at fault and needs educating instead of everybody else who disagrees with the decision that has been made.

2. Employment positions should only ever be offered to people on merit - that is, they have the right skills needed and required. To give one of these ladies a position within the company/group 'just because you are trying to look good' is just tokenism, and is actually more sexist and discriminatory than we are supposed to believe that the role of a Grid Girl/Walk On Girl is/was. These ladies had the skills necessary to fulfil their role, therefore why the hullabaloo? If they had been FORCED to do this role then I would have said definitely ban it and also legal action should have been taken,

3. Were the ladies in question consulted about the decision made to retire their positions? I notice that nobody wants to answer that question.

4. Yes, people lose their jobs, but these ladies are being forced out. I don't see that any of the pro-feminist groups online are willing to help them find alternative employment or to fund any depreciation in their finances. Surely, women (and men) fought for the right for women to do whatever they wanted with their bodies - whether that be topless modelling, being a Grid Girl or even being a civil engineer. Is it now that women can only do what certain people say they can do? That, in my opinion, is a backward step and says a lot about the society we are living in where the rights of one group over-ride the feelings and thoughts of others.

As I've already said, a moratorium on these positions coupled with debate and arguments presented for and against would have been better - with the ladies in question having the final say.

If I was to say that Taylor Swift or Beyonce should have a ban, as they perform scantily clad in some of their music videos and have suggestible lyrics in their songs, I would be laughed out of the room. Yet, aren't impressionable young girls going to pick up on how Taylor and Beyonce look and act and mimic them? Strange that there is little desire to want them banned. Personally, I think that controlling Taylor and Beyonce as well as any other female on the planet is out of my control and remit, and that respecting the individual rights of people matters more than some overall group-think that because something feels wrong it must be stopped without asking questions first.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No one is being forced out of a job, a job that was once available now is not, same thing happened to blacksmith's a while back... Those girls would also most likely get their jobs through an agency and aren't employees of anyone so they haven't lost any job only an opportunity to work for one weekend a year.

It's simply the image darts and f1 want to promote, grid girls and walk on girls aren't something you'd associate with a major sport which I'm sure they want to be considered as.

 

[j'nuh]

I'm not fussed whether grid/walk on girls are at races/events or not and I've seen some supposed darts fans say they won't go again haha

I just hate the fact these girls are losing a living, they will make good money promoting and doing these jobs which they want and are happy to do which helps pay their bills etc

People can have opinions but don't take these girls jobs away because a minority of people don't like it.

Don't like it don't watch it.

I think that's the entire point of why the change was made...

 

[SharksFan86]

I think that's the entire point of why the change was made...

I do get that point but it is hardly going to be groundbreaking numbers to warrant the change.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

The kids are in charge now.

Decent move IMO.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yup, good call, they'll have a whale of a time. A sup-ed up version of rugby teams running out with a bunch of mascots.
They'll have to shorten their time on the grid though