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Has Rugby Become boring?

You can't force nations to play a certain way because you didn't like the match. That is fundementally wrong, it ruins the game for others and you'll end up turning more people off of the game than when you started. You can't force nations to stop themselves from trying to squeeze out a victory. If you want to win that badly, everything else goes out of the window. I mean, what do you want to do? Have the ref get the captains together and inform them that they're running low on their running quota and threaten to bin random players if they don't try to play more attacking rugby? You can't force attacking rugby through social engineering.[/b]



I don't see how puting a more attractive product on the field will turn more people off the game than on. Simply put if you have a game that is entertaining and appeals to both the hardcore and the casual fan alike, you will put bums in the seats and you will get the lucrative television audience. Now, I do realize you can't necessarily force nations to play a certain way, but with certain law changes perhaps you can entice them into playing more attractive rugby. Proffessional rugby is still in its infancy and is currently in the phase where defence and territory are deemed to be the most important attributes. What many of us are looking for is a balance. We want to see teams not only able to slug it out on the ground but also to be able use some skill and swing it wide.

Yes, the game was a forward intensive battle but to say that it turned off the casual fan is a shockingly massive generalisation. I met several guys, slowly grounding themselves in rugby who found the game great to watch because of the sheer physicality and power of the performance. I asked them to name their best and worst performance of the world cup and for the worst performance they named one of the Argentina games. Why? The constant use of the high kick, they couldn't understand why there were so many of them throughout the match and as such it turned them off of the game.[/b]



But does that not support our arguement? The constant here is that kicking is what turns fans off and kicking is the most integral part of playing a foward dominated/territorial game. I don't mind the forward packs slogging it out, since I am a hooker my self and I not only appreciate the going ons but I enjoy it. My problem comes when the backs don't take advantage of that possession and hard work. It is highly disappointing to see hard work wasted on seven backs with little skill who either kick the ball away or get isolated out wide.

There needs to be a balance. Yes, the various parts of attacking rugby are integral skills but a balance needs to be struck out between forward play and running play. Yes, challenge teams not to kick for touch but at the same time remind them that if, like with New Zealand against France in the RWC, you are in a situation where you are unable to break the gain line and are actually losing ground, then you must try to secure the game via any (legal) method possible.

I know you're not saying that Jonny shouldn't have kicked the drop goal in 2003 or that New Zealand were right not to consider a drop goal against France this year but as much as this might anger some people, sometimes a drop goal or a gradual rumble to the try line can be the only option left.[/b]



I don't mind if your backs are up against the wall and you have to grab the game by the balls and do what ever you have to do to secure possession and try to win. My problem comes when two sides right from the kick off say "what the hell do I want this white oval object for" and promptly boot it straight down the field. And when this repeats another 83 times in the game I get frustrated, angry and eventually sleepy. Certainly, I also understand that England had neither the imagination nor the skill outside the man wearing the number ten on his jersey, but that is exactly what we're talking about. Why should a side that is completely one dimensional and unskilled be able to compete at the highest level?

There has been some hype about the Stellenboche rules and the simple truth is that some of the rules are common sense no brainers which do good, some make no difference what so ever or make no sense and some are frankly dangerous or encourage bad behavior.Stellenboche won't suddenly turn Rugby Union into Rugby League but on the other hand they're going about trying to open up the game the wrong way.

Suddenly changing rules and suddenly expecting players, chaps brought up playing a specific style for all of their lives, to start playing poetic and romantic running rugby, won't turn Rugby Union into a fantastic game. If you want to change attitudes and styles of play, its going to take time, decades perhaps. [/b]



Obviously some of the rules will not be permently implemented into the game but some will and hopefully they will help open up the game. I think we all realize that these rules may take years to fully make their impact, but there will be some short term gains. Yes, some players will be filtered out of the game, but we will hopefully see a new brand of player come through all across the globe. Maybe those new generations of players are out at the clubs now at ten or eleven years old, we just need the coaches at the grassroots level to embrace the law changes and change the priorities of the kids from kick first to pass first.

Anyway, the game will change over time but sudden changes in misguided attempts to give fans more entertaining rugby will be counter productive. That I gaurantee you.[/b]



I won't disagree with the fact that drastic changes could have an adverse effect on the game, but like every other sport, rugby must look within and ask "is this how we want the game to be played?". The iRB has done this and the resonding answer has been and emphatic "No". As such they have outlined where the game is wrong and have developed rules that might counter the current style of rugby. At least with these Stellenboche rules, it shows that the iRB not only care, but are not completely stuck in the Old Boys Club and want to see the game flourish. Promising signs indeed.
 
I don't see how putting a more attractive product on the field will turn more people off the game than on. Simply put if you have a game that is entertaining and appeals to both the hardcore and the casual fan alike, you will put bums in the seats and you will get the lucrative television audience. Now, I do realize you can't necessarily force nations to play a certain way, but with certain law changes perhaps you can entice them into playing more attractive rugby. Proffessional rugby is still in its infancy and is currently in the phase where defence and territory are deemed to be the most important attributes. What many of us are looking for is a balance. We want to see teams not only able to slug it out on the ground but also to be able use some skill and swing it wide.[/b]

I apologise, we're talking about different things here. You're talking about fans, I'm talking about existing players and how they'll react to sudden changes to a way of playing rugby that they've been practising for years.

I'm not arguing against gradual change, after reading up on the new laws and after lots of careful thought I've come to that conclusion. But suddenly changing the rules to push people one way or another just doesn't work. Look at teams like Georgia and Romania for example, if you think the style of rugby in England and Scotland is conservative, the style of Rugby in Eastern Europe depends on how huge your pack is. If the rules were changed suddenly it might be a boon to lighter teams like Japan and a cop out to teams like Australia but there would be a very real danger of leaving other smaller and poorer teams like Georgia marooned in a sea of flowing rugby because they simply would not be able to adapt in time.

A better solution would be to fund and gradually change things. This will take decades because everything from grassroots to national level has to change. You'll have to convince the thousands of Georgian and Romanian fans who turn out every week to watch what you would term 'boring' rugby that its better to have a more lightweight and mobile pack which can get the ball out wide for a more attacking style.

That will, I gaurantee you this, will take decades to change.

But does that not support our arguement? The constant here is that kicking is what turns fans off and kicking is the most integral part of playing a foward dominated/territorial game. I don't mind the forward packs slogging it out, since I am a hooker my self and I not only appreciate the going ons but I enjoy it. My problem comes when the backs don't take advantage of that possession and hard work. It is highly disappointing to see hard work wasted on seven backs with little skill who either kick the ball away or get isolated out wide.[/b]

Yes and no. Yes because of what you've listed above and no because Argentina have been lauded by one and all the world over because of their exploits in the Rugby World Cup. Those were the only two people who have suggested that maybe, just maybe, Argentina were possibly more one dimensional than England for example in the RWC. Many people though have praised Argentina on the one hand, only to skulk to the shadows and condemn the amount of up and unders, etc. You're not one of those however and as such, point taken.

I don't mind if your backs are up against the wall and you have to grab the game by the balls and do what ever you have to do to secure possession and try to win. My problem comes when two sides right from the kick off say "what the hell do I want this white oval object for" and promptly boot it straight down the field. And when this repeats another 83 times in the game I get frustrated, angry and eventually sleepy. Certainly, I also understand that England had neither the imagination nor the skill outside the man wearing the number ten on his jersey, but that is exactly what we're talking about. Why should a side that is completely one dimensional and unskilled be able to compete at the highest level?[/b]

Thats a question for the supposedly "better" teams to answer. England have only done their very best with what little resources they have gotten themselves in frankly one of the most shambolic RWC preparations in history. It is up to teams like Australia and France, teams who are supposedly more dynamic than England to prove that Dawinism does work and that the fittest survive.

Gareth Edwards and Jeremy Gusgott were talking about France and New Zealand and they were bemused as to why New Zealand went through god knows how many inturrupted phases of play without going for a drop goal. Gusgott was emphatic in his belief that New Zealand didn't even train for such an eventuality, going so far as to say that "they probably didn't even work out a call for it." And then you have Australia who themselves are stuck in the past when they steadfastly refuse to develop a modern forward pack (i.e. one that can scrummage and support the backs), something which teams like New Zealand and even England have done since 2003 but something which Australia, a rugby nation who were calling for the abolition of scrums a decade or two ago, have completely failed to do.

In this case, I would argue that it isn't just England who are one dimensional. You have several groups of teams stuck in a single mode of play. Those who are one dimensional in the way that they use forward dominated play with kicking and those who are one dimensional in the way that they rely solely on their backs and leave the forwards as an afterthought. Teams like France, New Zealand and today South Africa sit in the middle because they are intelligent enough to make use of both sets of resources. New Zealand need to be more dynamic and rely a little less on running and think more about how to win the game to join that exclusive club properly.

That is how the game works, you don't adapt to the rules and you become too inflexible and you die. What is really interesting about Stellenboch<strike>W</strike> (sorry BokMagic :lol) is the emphasis on moving away from awarding penalties for allot of offenses and replacing them with free kicks.
 
Webby, earlier this year the Wallabies got Joey Johns to come and teach them kicking because simply put, they were pretty rubbish....and note the amount of dropgoals put through by the current Wallabies team, a handful at most...to say they aren't very good at a kicking game is immensely appropriate.....
 
1995,1999,2003 all won by kicks. 2007 won by penalty kicks. So I guess to win a world cup its fair to say you need a good kicking game but to win in between world cups you need both a good running game and a fairly good kicking game. Depends what you want really.
 
I reckon that both the forward play and the open play are equally important, Sometimes the worst games to watch are ones with crazy passes and no structure. Then again no passing at all doesn't add that much either.

Teams will always tend to do what is most effective, and as seen in the world cup, It wasn't an all blacks style of rugby. The best team are those that can do both (springboks!).
If you want just running rugby then you can watch league, but it's just not as interesting with basically no forwards. The wonderful thing about union is having people with specific skills of totally different sizes etc... It's great to watch big props and tiny halfbacks etc...
Maybe rugby need more education about the skills involved in scrums, rucks and linouts and people may find it more interesting.
 
This'd be the same IOC that call wrestling, dancing and weight lifting sports?

What the f*** do they know...
 
All he pretty much said was that the rugby at the world cup was pretty average.

There are many sports that are competing for inclusion to the Olympics and whilst its disappointing to say so, the truth is that rugby is one of the few sports with its head on the chopping block.
 
i think this is being blown out of proportion. if the wc is being used as an example then all sports are boring really. no one wants to take risks when the stakes are so high. if you ask me it just seems at internatinal level we have more teams afraid of losing than wanting to win
 
wrestling can stay and should stay. watching iranians wrestle is gold. but "SPORTS" like air rifle, archery and ribbon twirling ought to go. how much more of a sport is that than rugby?
 
And to think the current Olympic rugby champions are the USA.... [/b]



Yeah back in the early 1900's when only three teams competed (France, USA, and I'm pretty sure Romania)
 
I reckon that both the forward play and the open play are equally important, Sometimes the worst games to watch are ones with crazy passes and no structure. Then again no passing at all doesn't add that much either.

Teams will always tend to do what is most effective, and as seen in the world cup, It wasn't an all blacks style of rugby. The best team are those that can do both (springboks!).
If you want just running rugby then you can watch league, but it's just not as interesting with basically no forwards. The wonderful thing about union is having people with specific skills of totally different sizes etc... It's great to watch big props and tiny halfbacks etc...
Maybe rugby need more education about the skills involved in scrums, rucks and linouts and people may find it more interesting.
[/b]

Personally, I think we just need some decent refs and less fart arsing around, Bartman on the Silverfern summed it up perfectly...



If the damn refs just ruled on the current laws of the games instead of coaching players at breakdowns, the game would speed up and work too.

Instead of saying 'hands off' at rucks, blow your whistle and penalise the *******. He will then stop hands-ing on, and the game will flwo.

Players off side, instead of saying "get back number 4" when he is in fornt of the last feet, again, penalise the *******!!

And wham, the game speeds up...[/b]



I personally think we need more refs like that Welshman who did the 2nd Bledisoe Cup test (Nigel Owens?) - Probably the best ref game i've seen in a long time.
 
its not practical for 15's to be in the olympics.. but 7's should definately be in there..
 
its not practical for 15's to be in the olympics.. but 7's should definately be in there..
[/b]

Agree i think 7's would most definitely be more attractive then 15's..

imagine people watching rugby for the first time and end up watching a game like we had in the WC final :huh:
 

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