Menu
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Forums
Featured
European Champions & Challenge Cup
Heineken Cup P5: Leinster vs Exeter Chiefs - 13/10/2012
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Peat" data-source="post: 531396" data-attributes="member: 42330"><p>Ah, I knew someone would bring up the Irish provinces...</p><p></p><p><strong>The Irish provinces do not control the amount of gametime they can give to their Irish internationals.</strong></p><p></p><p>Please everybody get that into their heads now. Because the majority of regular Irish internationals aka the majority of Leinster's first team are on central contracts, the IRFU dictates how many games a season they can play. So the number of regular Irish internationals involved is not a reasonable barometer of the level of their commitment to the Celtic League, <strong>because they do not control that.</strong></p><p></p><p>As it is, out of the guys they could play regularly there - McFadden (I think), Nacewa, Strauss, Cullen, McLaughlin - three of them played heavily and I don't know what the gig with the other two is off hand, although if I remember right McFadden was right on the fringes of the Irish team that year and didn't play much in international windows.</p><p></p><p>For the main part, you are going to have to accept my word for it that the Irish provinces care about the Celtic League. Maybe not as much as they do about the Heineken Cup, but they do. Let's not forget that Leinster finished top of the league that year with 81 points. They lost the play-off final to a strong Ospreys side, a week after the HEC final. Let's not forget that Ulster effectively demoted their coach the year he got them to a Heineken Cup Final. Why? I strongly believe the horrendous run of results at the start of the Pro12 year when Sir couldn't get a largely second-string Ulster side to fire, costing us any real chance of making the playoffs. Both are important to the World Domination plan, so off he went to work with the kids.</p><p></p><p>And, f**k it, if you can put 81 points on a league using your second string, you're not going to be too bothered about whether you can use the big guns are you? This is largely because Leinster's second XV is largely HEC quality itself and contains no shortage of guys who've been around international squads - Kearney jr, Fitzgerald, Boss, van der Merwe, Cronin, Toner, Ruddock, Jennings; that's half the team. Leinster have fantastic depth and use it wisely, which is why they have been routinely smashing it up on two fronts. Put them in any league, and Leinster 2011/12 would still be able to rotate their way to high finishes in both competitions.</p><p></p><p>And really whose business is it if they rotate heavily? Or if Saracens do, to pick another team with a notable rotation policy? Rotation is by now an accepted part and parcel of elite level sport with attritional playing schedules - or it should be. The question is, why aren't the other HEC contenders rotating? The current league formats are very friendly to rotation, in that a 4th place finish puts you in with a chance of winning in both the CL and Premiership. And in domestic and european competition alike, who's got the freshest and strongest squad at the end often plays a part in who wins.</p><p></p><p>But hey. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If people want to continue to believe that it's all due to a soft league and that all facts and figures otherwise are to be dismissed out of hand, good luck to them. I await their new explanations for the Irish provinces' strong performances when eventually competitive qualification comes into place, because obviously it isn't built around an exceptional wave of talent that allows them to ride out two competitions in better style than the salary cap English teams in the midst of a national dearth and French teams who seem to crumble at the crucial away games too much, despite all their talent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Peat, post: 531396, member: 42330"] Ah, I knew someone would bring up the Irish provinces... [B]The Irish provinces do not control the amount of gametime they can give to their Irish internationals.[/B] Please everybody get that into their heads now. Because the majority of regular Irish internationals aka the majority of Leinster's first team are on central contracts, the IRFU dictates how many games a season they can play. So the number of regular Irish internationals involved is not a reasonable barometer of the level of their commitment to the Celtic League, [B]because they do not control that.[/B] As it is, out of the guys they could play regularly there - McFadden (I think), Nacewa, Strauss, Cullen, McLaughlin - three of them played heavily and I don't know what the gig with the other two is off hand, although if I remember right McFadden was right on the fringes of the Irish team that year and didn't play much in international windows. For the main part, you are going to have to accept my word for it that the Irish provinces care about the Celtic League. Maybe not as much as they do about the Heineken Cup, but they do. Let's not forget that Leinster finished top of the league that year with 81 points. They lost the play-off final to a strong Ospreys side, a week after the HEC final. Let's not forget that Ulster effectively demoted their coach the year he got them to a Heineken Cup Final. Why? I strongly believe the horrendous run of results at the start of the Pro12 year when Sir couldn't get a largely second-string Ulster side to fire, costing us any real chance of making the playoffs. Both are important to the World Domination plan, so off he went to work with the kids. And, f**k it, if you can put 81 points on a league using your second string, you're not going to be too bothered about whether you can use the big guns are you? This is largely because Leinster's second XV is largely HEC quality itself and contains no shortage of guys who've been around international squads - Kearney jr, Fitzgerald, Boss, van der Merwe, Cronin, Toner, Ruddock, Jennings; that's half the team. Leinster have fantastic depth and use it wisely, which is why they have been routinely smashing it up on two fronts. Put them in any league, and Leinster 2011/12 would still be able to rotate their way to high finishes in both competitions. And really whose business is it if they rotate heavily? Or if Saracens do, to pick another team with a notable rotation policy? Rotation is by now an accepted part and parcel of elite level sport with attritional playing schedules - or it should be. The question is, why aren't the other HEC contenders rotating? The current league formats are very friendly to rotation, in that a 4th place finish puts you in with a chance of winning in both the CL and Premiership. And in domestic and european competition alike, who's got the freshest and strongest squad at the end often plays a part in who wins. But hey. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If people want to continue to believe that it's all due to a soft league and that all facts and figures otherwise are to be dismissed out of hand, good luck to them. I await their new explanations for the Irish provinces' strong performances when eventually competitive qualification comes into place, because obviously it isn't built around an exceptional wave of talent that allows them to ride out two competitions in better style than the salary cap English teams in the midst of a national dearth and French teams who seem to crumble at the crucial away games too much, despite all their talent. [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Featured
European Champions & Challenge Cup
Heineken Cup P5: Leinster vs Exeter Chiefs - 13/10/2012
Top