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Heineken Cup Semi Final: Clermont vs Leinster - 29/04/12

psychic duck

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For the 35 mins or so he lasts in a game possibly. Though one is a TH the other a LH.

firstly he played just under an hour and has only recently returned from a three month injury, secondly Zirakashvili dominated Healy at scrum, and with another referee in charge of the scrum I'm sure would have won a couple more penalties
 

Logorrhea

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Long time no see...
:)
Just stopped in to see if anything had changed. I see its the exact same bunch of posters spouting the exact same opinions about the same Irish players, unwilling to listen to anything new.

with another referee in charge of the scrum I'm sure would have won a couple more penalties
You see? a perfect example of it. IF this, IF that, no mention of Healys work around the park, his tackling, his try ...... sure why use all the evidence when you can just select the bits that suit and ignore the rest.
 
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lucky number 7

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Just stopped in to see if anything had changed. I see its the exact same bunch of posters spouting the exact same opinions about the same Irish players, unwilling to listen to anything new.

Leopards won't change their spots , at least there is principle :p
 

TRF_Olyy

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Anyone else think that Cian Healy is just a poor man's Andrew Sheridan?




:D
 

psychic duck

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You see? a perfect example of it. IF this, IF that, no mention of Healys work around the park, his tackling, his try ...... sure why use all the evidence when you can just select the bits that suit and ignore the rest.

Zirakashvili was very impressive in the loose with ball in hand, and got the better of Healy at scrum

to be fair to Healy he won a turnover somewhere I think, but overall he had a pretty average game, that dreadful offload which caused a knock on and then followed by a scrum penalty was really bad

as for that try, any professional rugby player could have scored that, there was literally nobody in front of him, or near him

it was harder not to score
 

Feicarsinn

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firstly he played just under an hour and has only recently returned from a three month injury, secondly Zirakashvili dominated Healy at scrum, and with another referee in charge of the scrum I'm sure would have won a couple more penalties

Tell me which scrums Clermont should have had a penalty at and I'll have another look, but I can't think of a time when they were denied one.
 

lucky number 7

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Zirakashvili was very impressive in the loose with ball in hand, and got the better of Healy at scrum

to be fair to Healy he won a turnover somewhere I think, but overall he had a pretty average game, that dreadful offload which caused a knock on and then followed by a scrum penalty was really bad

as for that try, any professional rugby player could have scored that, there was literally nobody in front of him, or near him

it was harder not to score

And Zirikashvili was on the end of Sivivatus break to run it in..
 

psychic duck

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Tell me which scrums Clermont should have had a penalty at and I'll have another look, but I can't think of a time when they were denied one.

there was a scrum in the first half where Clermont got the shove on and Leinster got the penalty

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been a penalty, but I'm sure with lottery that is scrum penalties that another referee would have just looked at the scrum and seen Clermont on top and given them the penalty

I think there was another occasion somewhere as well in the match where Clermont got the shove on and weren't awarded the penalty

on another day, another referee would have probably awarded Clermont another scrum penalty I think, especially a referee who could have folded under the crowd's pressure

And Zirikashvili was on the end of Sivivatus break to run it in..

the problem being that there was load of Leinster defenders in front of him and it was like from 40 metres out, Healy ran from about 5 to 10 metres out with nobody near him as Kearney had drawn the full back perfectly

Zirakashvili is quite some beast in the loose and made some good gainline rumbles when he was on

and since you are questioning Zirakashvili's skills in the loose compared to Healy's, just watch this great prop try

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BTfzUbgsWGA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
 
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Feicarsinn

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there was a scrum in the first half where Clermont got the shove on and Leinster got the penalty

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been a penalty, but I'm sure with lottery that is scrum penalties that another referee would have just looked at the scrum and seen Clermont on top and given them the penalty

I think there was another occasion somewhere as well in the match where Clermont got the shove on and weren't awarded the penalty

on another day, another referee would have probably awarded Clermont another scrum penalty I think, especially a referee who could have folded under the crowd's pressure

There's a world of difference between getting the shove on and winning a penalty. You don't just get a penalty for having a good scrum, the opposition has to do something wrong. That's why they call it a penalty. Leinster's scrum went backward a few times yes, but they didn't infringe and did a good job of getting the ball out of there before Clermont could force them to pop up.
 

psychic duck

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There's a world of difference between getting the shove on and winning a penalty. You don't just get a penalty for having a good scrum, the opposition has to do something wrong. That's why they call it a penalty. Leinster's scrum went backward a few times yes, but they didn't infringe and did a good job of getting the ball out of there before Clermont could force them to pop up.

yes I know, but many referees automatically just give penalties to the dominant scrum these days

I'm not saying Clermont were robbed, just saying on another day another referee would have seen it differently
 

Feicarsinn

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And fair play to Sir for it. A good scrum in which the opposition is driven backward can be a lot more damaging that a quick penalty. There's the obvious advantage of having lots of space for the backs to run on to a retreating defence and there's the psychological aspect too of course. I thought Barnes handled the scrums quite well on the weekend.
 

psychic duck

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And fair play to Sir for it. A good scrum in which the opposition is driven backward can be a lot more damaging that a quick penalty. There's the obvious advantage of having lots of space for the backs to run on to a retreating defence and there's the psychological aspect too of course. I thought Barnes handled the scrums quite well on the weekend.

I see your point, but against a defence as good as Leinster's the opportunity for three points is valuable

the referee wasn't influenced by the crowd and if anything gave some close calls to Leinster, but there are plenty of other refs out there who would have buckled under crowd pressure and sent the Clermont fans back to the other side of France much happier
 

snoopy snoopy dog dog

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I'm not saying Clermont were robbed, just saying on another day another referee would have seen it differently
That can apply to every game of rugby though. Using that logic, the referee in the Leinster v Cardiff Blues game could have seen things in the Blues favour for example.
 

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yes I know, but many referees automatically just give penalties to the dominant scrum these days
So because the ref wasnt incompetent the Georgian was unlucky not to get more undeserved penalties? Thats your arguement?

Finally, I didnt question the Georgians skills, I first of all questioned why you would compare a TH to a LH. Then questioned his fitness.

I commented on Healys skills around the park. I take your clip from a mickeymouse international match, and raise you a clip from last years HEC Semi Final vs Toulouse. Runs through Heymans I believe, and out runs Meddard :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD_WiotVE8U
 

psychic duck

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That can apply to every game of rugby though. Using that logic, the referee in the Leinster v Cardiff Blues game could have seen things in the Blues favour for example.

true, but what I meant was

but there are loads of referees who automatically give penalties to the stronger scrum

there are also referees who give into the crowd

the match didn't get either

So because the ref wasnt incompetent the Georgian was unlucky not to get more undeserved penalties? Thats your arguement?

Finally, I didnt question the Georgians skills, I first of all questioned why you would compare a TH to a LH. Then questioned his fitness.

I commented on Healys skills around the park. I take your clip from a mickeymouse international match, and raise you a clip from last years HEC Semi Final vs Toulouse. Runs through Heymans I believe, and out runs Meddard :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD_WiotVE8U

I compared Healy to Zirakashvili as they were scrummaging opposite each other

I answered your point on fitness, he played 58 minutes in his fourth match back from a three month injury, props are normally subbed off around that time anyway unless the reserve props are totally pants, Leinster did the same thing bringing on van der Merwe after 55 minutes

as for the skills around the park comment, Healy is very good around the park, I remember a great hit on Quade Cooper during the RWC as well

I put that video up to show you that Zirakashvili is also a beast in the loose, and it was in response to Lucky Number 7

the Georgia against Russia match is not a "mickey mouse international match"

finally the name is Davit Zirakashvili not "the Georgian"
 
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Gronde van der Hogg

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Well that was mickey mouse tackling
 

lucky number 7

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I like the part where we are speculating what would have happened if the ref was incompetent.
 

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