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How can teams counter this England game plan?

Discussion in '2019 Guinness Six Nations' started by scotty507, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I agree with the full back thingie vs Ireland and a bit with Oly. England just found two holes in Ireland and France and exploited them beautifully. Nothing fancy, but very efficient. Owen literally toyed with Henshaw at will. To be honest, i don't think that will happen again to Ireland and I'll even double down on them: given it's a world cup year and how the Irish tend to get before world cups, this might have very well been the best thing that could happen to them. A slap on the face for them to focus and not get overconfident. They have enough 6N already and again, WC should be their priority. Should take away some of the pressure too, which is kind of a big deal for them. Their first 15 minutes were an anomaly. They are way better than that.

    Back to Wales. I dont see Wales being pushed around positionally in a kicking contest. I can see that happening to Scotland tho.
    I also agree with Oly that man x man, England has a better team than Wales, but i think Wales is a tidier team. They tend to do, on average, very few unforced errors. I don't see the welsh FB being constantly caught out of position nor their backs giving away knock ons from high balls again and again and again. They also tend to give very few scrum penalties and at rucks.

    Should be a close game. 10s and 15s game. I have England as favourites, by an inch.
     
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  3. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    The other thing is that this team should collectively pretty much be at the peak of their physical powers and able to sustain intensity. Ashton, who’s only really peripheral was team daddy at a venerable 31, Curry a very energetic 20 year old baby. Otherwise there were 3 at 29, 4 at 28 and 2 each at 25, 26 and 27. Neither too old nor too young.

    Lawes turns 30 on the day we play Wales. Some fly half ribs gift wrapped in red would be a nice present.
     
  4. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Think we have found Joe Schmidt TRF account!!
     
  5. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    Radge and Shaggy Horgan made the point that Ireland should have been kicking for touch off first phase - push the game up the field into England's half. This argument is made more compelling by Ireland having 3 great lineout juming options in the team (POM, Toner and Ryan).

    England made most of their gains by kicking behind - which was then compounded by Ireland not being able to reply in kind. Repeated carrying phases that go nowhere or backwards leading to a box kick* only invited pressure straight back on again with a scrambling defence.

    *that was never going to find touch or have the same distance as a kick from 10.
     
  6. Dai Yorkshire

    Dai Yorkshire Senior Member

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    England are definitely better at doing what they do than they have been, Englands BR will be the difference at the moment they have a far better one than we do, but games now are won at the tackle/breakdown England have greatly improved in this area.
    They now follow up on the tackle far quicker and clean the opposition out allowing for quick ball and not allowing the opposition to form their defensive line, this helps Farrell and his kicking game, You can have the best fullback in the world playing but if your defensive wall has not reset your on the backfoot.
     
  7. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Think the question is how can England keep up this pace without Manu in the squad potentially.

    He doesn't need to do much, but he makes the defence narrow, even if you contain him the mere threat of him forces you to have 2/3 defenders near him, which gives May (Who is the best wing in the world ATM) an isoloated winger to attack against (either on the ball or kick chasing).
     
  8. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    Mako is injured but we can bring in Genge, not like for like exactly, genge needs to work on his game and gain experience but gas real potential so it doesnt worry me to much.

    But wgat if manu goes down? Ford farrell slade doesnt work, we know teo is ok but not great so how do we have to change our gameplan? Most players we have good depth but 12 is prob the least quality depth ( as i want faz at 10)
     
  9. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Isn't it obvious.

    Opposition must aim for the neck when tackling...
     
  10. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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    Farrell Slade Joseph / Ford Farrell Joseph

    One of those combinations we know does work (and did so before Farrell learned some defensive discipline, and gained some game time at IC). The other is the perfect opportunity to trial Slade in the shirt that should be his most natural fit - leaving the backup of the second if it all goes pear shaped.
     
  11. Jashay

    Jashay Member

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    Yeah, the Manu problem is a tricky one. I think you'd see a switch back to Ford-Farrell-X in that situation, but I'm not even sure who the X would be. JJ probably, although Slade has certainly put his hand up.

    But if you want a like-for-like switch then the cupboard looks pretty bare. T'eo doesn't seem to have the carrying power, and the combination of him and Slade was defensively a bit suspect in the autumn. But every other option touted for centre is much more lightweight. As an outside-the-box solution (and probably a longer term one, not for the world cup) I wonder if it's possible to convert someone like big Joe or Jack Clifford into a crashing centre with decent hands? Defence would again be a worry with big Joe, but how is Clifford getting on these days?
     
  12. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    And not use their arms?
     
  13. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    Depends if Hogg is fit.
     
  14. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    We've already played Ireland so we're safe from POM for another year
     
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  15. higgik

    higgik Senior Member

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    Do you think a bit of insider information will tell the England team how to attack Williams. He does play for the same club team as most of the England squad.
     
  16. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Has to be JJ who has impressed in the Ford-Farrell-X scenario whereas Slade has required Manu. Infact Manu's return has improved Slade's performance so much I'd advocate Farrell- Manu-JJ once JJ is back and it might give JJ the attacking edge back. Reality is Slade was utterly useless in the Ford-Farrell-X formation.

    I still prefer the idea of Ford-Farrell-Manu but I have accept that ship has sailed now.
     
  17. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    But doesnt that work both ways? Williams will have insider on the sarries guys too. But analysis of how they play will give alot of that info anyway and they wont play the sarries way or systems, may be an advantage to both teams insider knowledge but i dont think it will have a massive effect.
     
  18. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    It may improve JJs game playing with manu as it did slade as it will create more gaps but slades all round game i think will be better with the back 3 we have. Ford faz JJ works better than slade because ford faz arnt running threats so teams know its likely foing to the 13 thats where JJ has the threat to draw defenders more or sprint through a gap. But you have a that split second more slade excels with a more skillful game. Faz manu JJ should be tried ofcourse and i im sure it would work but i believe slade fits better.

    Am still waiting for ford faz manu with slade and big joe in the bench. Prob vs italy.
     
  19. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    The real danger probably lies in contact training to be honest. :eek:
     
  20. bushytop

    bushytop Senior Member

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    #warrenball
     
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  21. Dai Yorkshire

    Dai Yorkshire Senior Member

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    I bet you feel really stupid now,
     
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