How good is your country's depth?

[Scotty]

Make a 1st 2nd and 3rd XV, players can be used once and thats it. All players available as long as currently eligible.

Im curious to see how far some teams can stretch.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

1. Porter, Healy, Kilcoyne
2. Kelleher, Sheehan, Herring
3. Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole
4. Henderson, Ryan, Treadwell
5. Beirne, Baird, Kleyn (probably someone better but I'm blanking, Ahern if he was allowed play rugby)
6. Doris, Coombes, Timoney
7. VdF, Conners, POM, Leavy
8. Conan, Deegan, Hodnett
9. JGP, Murray, Casey
10. Sexdawg, Carbery, H Byrne/Carty (if Crowley wanted to spend a season at Leinster we'd have him in there in 6 months tops)
11. Lowe, Stockdale, Hansen
12. Henshaw, Aki, Frawley
13. Ringrose, Hume, Farrell
14. Balacoune, Larmour, Earls/Conway (Hopefully Jimmy stays fit and he'll be in)
15. Keenan, Lowry, Haley

Think we have the fewest number of positions where we're nearly ****** if the starter goes down we've ever had. However lose either prop or Johnny we go from comfortably a top 5 team to being very vulnerable to any top 9 side.

I've probably forgot a handful of guys, all of the top of the dome.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd say Dillane or Murray ahead of Kleyn. Swap Timoney and POM and probably remove Hodnett, put Coombes as an 8 and Ruddock as a 6 but not much to argue there.

 

[will311293]

So i made two XVs out of the current England Squad just to see what we could pick theortically. Obviously can't get 3 XVs out of that so from the 3XV down you start seeing players who we could theortically pick (I've still given priority to those who are selected in the squad in their position for realism)

1XV: Marler, LCD, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry, Dombrandt, Youngs, Smith, Slade, Tuilagi, May, OHC, Steward
2XV: Genge, George, Stuart, Ewels, Isiekwe, Barbeary, Ludlham, Simmonds , Quirke, Ford, Farrell, Marchant, Nowell, Daly, Malins
3XV: Rodd, Blamire, Heyes, Launchbury, Kruis, Chessum, Underhill, J Willis, Randall, Bailey, Atkinson, Northmore, Radwan, Freeman, Furbank

So i had to include J Willis, Underhill, Radwan, Kruis, Launchbury to get a XV and then use Freeman at wing as Jones says he sees him there. However, when you expand

4XV: M Vunipola, Singleton, Collier, Ribbans, Martin, Earl, T Hill, B Vunipola, Robson, Simmonds, Kelly, Odogwu, Loader, Thorley, Watson
5XV: Obano, Frost, H Williams, Stooke, Slater, B Curry, Chick, T Willis, Mitchell, Umaga, Lozoswki, Lawrence, Bassett, Murley, Parton
6XV: West, Thacker, Cole, Wells, McNally, Reid, M Wilson, Shields, Spencer, F Smith, Ojomah, O'Connor, O'Flaherty, Sleightholme, L James
7XV: Moon, Dunn, Phainter, Atwood, Symons, Rogerson, Evans, Hughes, J Maunder, Grayson, Devoto, Dingwall, Potter, Porter, Crossdale

So i have gone overboard but when i looked down the depth chart.... There are a number in that team especially in the 4XV & 5XV that you would not be upset at having in the squad. The fact that the likes of B Curry, T Willis, Collier, Robson and even European player of the Year J Simmonds can't get a look in is a joke. I'm sure there are a few you would mix up but there is a lot of talent out there... although.... i'd say that Lock is defo an ageing group.

 

[Scotty]

So i made two XVs out of the current England Squad just to see what we could pick theortically. Obviously can't get 3 XVs out of that so from the 3XV down you start seeing players who we could theortically pick (I've still given priority to those who are selected in the squad in their position for realism)

1XV: Marler, LCD, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry, Dombrandt, Youngs, Smith, Slade, Tuilagi, May, OHC, Steward
2XV: Genge, George, Stuart, Ewels, Isiekwe, Barbeary, Ludlham, Simmonds , Quirke, Ford, Farrell, Marchant, Nowell, Daly, Malins
3XV: Rodd, Blamire, Heyes, Launchbury, Kruis, Chessum, Underhill, J Willis, Randall, Bailey, Atkinson, Northmore, Radwan, Freeman, Furbank

So i had to include J Willis, Underhill, Radwan, Kruis, Launchbury to get a XV and then use Freeman at wing as Jones says he sees him there. However, when you expand

4XV: M Vunipola, Singleton, Collier, Ribbans, Martin, Earl, T Hill, B Vunipola, Robson, Simmonds, Kelly, Odogwu, Loader, Thorley, Watson
5XV: Obano, Frost, H Williams, Stooke, Slater, B Curry, Chick, T Willis, Mitchell, Umaga, Lozoswki, Lawrence, Bassett, Murley, Parton
6XV: West, Thacker, Cole, Wells, McNally, Reid, M Wilson, Shields, Spencer, F Smith, Ojomah, O'Connor, O'Flaherty, Sleightholme, L James
7XV: Moon, Dunn, Phainter, Atwood, Symons, Rogerson, Evans, Hughes, J Maunder, Grayson, Devoto, Dingwall, Potter, Porter, Crossdale

So i have gone overboard but when i looked down the depth chart.... There are a number in that team especially in the 4XV & 5XV that you would not be upset at having in the squad. The fact that the likes of B Curry, T Willis, Collier, Robson and even European player of the Year J Simmonds can't get a look in is a joke. I'm sure there are a few you would mix up but there is a lot of talent out there... although.... i'd say that Lock is defo an ageing group.

Good effort, i was going to do it but you beat me. Kruis isnt available though as he's not in the prem, replace with Lawes and place a back rower in the first team

1. Porter, Healy, Kilcoyne
2. Kelleher, Sheehan, Herring
3. Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole
4. Henderson, Ryan, Treadwell
5. Beirne, Baird, Kleyn (probably someone better but I'm blanking, Ahern if he was allowed play rugby)
6. Doris, Coombes, Timoney
7. VdF, Conners, POM, Leavy
8. Conan, Deegan, Hodnett
9. JGP, Murray, Casey
10. Sexdawg, Carbery, H Byrne/Carty (if Crowley wanted to spend a season at Leinster we'd have him in there in 6 months tops)
11. Lowe, Stockdale, Hansen
12. Henshaw, Aki, Frawley
13. Ringrose, Hume, Farrell
14. Balacoune, Larmour, Earls/Conway (Hopefully Jimmy stays fit and he'll be in)
15. Keenan, Lowry, Haley

Think we have the fewest number of positions where we're nearly ****** if the starter goes down we've ever had. However lose either prop or Johnny we go from comfortably a top 5 team to being very vulnerable to any top 9 side.

I've probably forgot a handful of guys, all of the top of the dome.

So both the above sets of squads could your 3rd team best italy?

 

[will311293]

Good effort, i was going to do it but you beat me. Kruis isnt available though as he's not in the prem, replace with Lawes and place a back rower in the first team

So both the above sets of squads could your 3rd team best italy?

Fair point with Kruis, It's more in a perfect world.

I'd say maybe to the 3rd XV, that backline is fairly inexperienced so it would be close. However, if we could amend with some of the 4th XV and bring in the likes of Ribbans into starting squad and Mako, Singleton, Collier, Martin, B Vunipola, Robson, Simmonds, Watson onto the bench, 100% win.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So both the above sets of squads could your 3rd team best italy?

I doubt it. A team of fillers who'd do well with good players around them but no one to really lift the level to that of a tier 1.5 international side.

 

[Scotty]

So if i were just picking 3 teams
Id go
Genge LCD Sinks
Itoje Hill
Curry Dombrandt Underhill
Youngs Smith
Manu Slade
May Staward Watson

2nds
Marler George Stuart
Lawes launchbury
Barbeary Simmonds JWillis

Youngs Ford
Atkinson Marchant
Radwan Malins Nowell

3rd
Mako Blarmire Hayes
Isiekwe Ribbans
Earl Billy Ludlam
Randall Faz
Lozowski Lawrence
Daly Furbank OHC

I think my 3rd would challenge italy, with Mako Billy Faz Daly as experience and most of the others are in or around the team i think we'd have apretty good chance.

 

[Goodey]

A bunch of debutants last summer beat the USA pretty comfortably so a similar team would probably go alright against Italy. I think it'd be a decently close thing

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I’d guess if there was a 3rd XV World Cup the semi finalists would invariably be at least 3 of Eng, Fra, NZ and SA. But depth is a blessing and a curse for a full national side.

Any chance of A fixtures any time soon?

 

[big ginger 8]

I’d guess if there was a 3rd XV World Cup the semi finalists would invariably be at least 3 of Eng, Fra, NZ and SA. But depth is a blessing and a curse for a full national side.

Any chance of A fixtures any time soon?

Farrell said it wasn't feasible for us this 6N with URC fixtures. Not sure if that's due to rescheduled matches or just the regular format though.

He did say we'll have midweek matches on the NZ tour this year though.

 

[Scotty]

Anyone from Wales/Scotland want to pitch in?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But depth is a blessing and a curse for a full national side.

Starting to see this to a lesser degree here. I think it puts much more pressure on a losing team when everyone starts screeching that X or y player, neither of whom are good enough, need to be starting.

I give Jack Carty a tougher time than he deserves on here but there are constantly people claiming he's Ireland's best 10. In reality, he's a key player for Connacht who do well in the URC but couldn't close out wins with two and three score cushions two weeks in a row at a Euro level. He's not cut out for international rugby. Carty is the most prominent but definitely not the only one, it used to be McCloskey, O'Halloran and Healy had their runs too.

I'd often skim the England thread and see guys named who I wouldn't want in a Leinster set up never mind Ireland. Often in mid to low table and effective because of that.

 

[HamJan]

So if i were just picking 3 teams
Id go
Genge LCD Sinks
Itoje Hill
Curry Dombrandt Underhill
Youngs Smith
Manu Slade
May Staward Watson

2nds
Marler George Stuart
Lawes launchbury
Barbeary Simmonds JWillis

Youngs Ford
Atkinson Marchant
Radwan Malins Nowell

3rd
Mako Blarmire Hayes
Isiekwe Ribbans
Earl Billy Ludlam
Randall Faz
Lozowski Lawrence
Daly Furbank OHC

I think my 3rd would challenge italy, with Mako Billy Faz Daly as experience and most of the others are in or around the team i think we'd have apretty good chance.

Good sides, but you've used Youngs twice at SH (unless one of them is Tom)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Good sides, but you've used Youngs twice at SH (unless one of them is Tom)

Just reflecting the reality that Youngs gets picked regardless.

 

[Scotty]

Good sides, but you've used Youngs twice at SH (unless one of them is Tom)

Well he'd do better than is Ben lol

Meant Quirke in 1st team

 

[duncanb]

Plenty of depth in theory in England, however does our coach look to future proof.
Lack of looking at alternative is EJ issues unless it's forced.
NB. no doubt he is a very good coach but see this as his weak area.

 

[BPM]

Maybe in a couple of positions, but the actual facts are that he’s overseen the biggest turnover of any England coach often giving debuts to young guys.

Lack of change at 9 is often the one that gets cited. Personally, I’d have liked to have seen Robson get more of a chance over the years, but realistically he and Spencer are no better than Youngs and the likes of Randall and Quirke have only recently become serious options.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I know talking with some other kiwis, there is some worry about our future depth. not so much the raw potential but whether our structure is still the best way to turn people into international stars or even identify furture talent

There are some that have some through in the last couple of years that were stars at super rugby level but really struggled in the black jersey

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Whoever much I bash Eddie Jones (and I do at every opportunity) with the amount of injuries over the past 5+ years he must struggle to plan ahead. Makes me a little sick to defend him but how can you future proof with the constant injuries we’ve had.