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Irish accused of aiding All Black defections
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<blockquote data-quote="Peat" data-source="post: 393024" data-attributes="member: 42330"><p>A few quick points...</p><p></p><p>None of the Ulster lads who played against Wales but didn't against England are being held back by foreigners except possibly Gilroy by Danielli and frankly Gilroy's taking his place already.</p><p></p><p>There aren't really any promising young props at Ulster, save for Paddy McAllister who sat on the bench for a HC QF aged 21 and has now started at least two Interpros and is quite clearly not being held back. Actually... slightly harsh. There's promising props, props who might make it. McAllister is the only stand out one there though. Right now, it is more important for Ulster's long term future, and the long term future of the group of young players coming through in the backs, to have a top class tighthead then muddle along hoping you were wrong about one of them.</p><p></p><p>Now,</p><p>Cymro's post on the last page was by far the most pertinent here. Players like Botha and Elsom who raise the players around them are excellent investments. Players like Timoci Nagusa, Borlase so far et al... aren't. But thats an indictment on decision making, not the whole idea.</p><p></p><p>Smartcooky, your facts about players getting starts and opportunities is sadly off. Conway and Macken have both had starts for Leinster this season and McKeon's featured for Connacht. Think Qualter has too. Both McKeon and Macken got injured over the course of the campaign. </p><p></p><p>And, while I can't be arsed to dig up full facts and figures, usually over 2/3rds of an England U20 squad come the JWC will have played first team senior rugby with usually around a third having played some serious time. A lot of the squad will be a year young too. Out of the 2009 JWC squad, we've already had 2 full internationals and 3 Saxons. Right now, bunch of foreigners or not, our player development is spot on.</p><p></p><p>And I see your Luke Romano and raise you Joe Marler. I would have said Corbierso, but its already happened. And so on. How many average SH fans had heard of Ben Youngs the summer before he tore Australia a new one?</p><p></p><p>You're also asking different questions when you compare Zac Guildford and co to the amount of Irish players making it who are currently in the U20s. From the last couple of seasons there are a number of players. Using the 2009 batch again - Ruddock is a full international, Spence and Ryan are A internationals, McAllister, O'Mahony and Murray are all very good bets to get A caps in the next year. Maybe not the flood that there in NZ, but 6 players of that quality a year makes a strong international team.</p><p></p><p>Which is not to say the young systems in a lot of NH countries couldn't be improved, or that they're not working on it and investing in it. But they're not weak, and things aren't going to be improved by vowing never to buy a SH player again and giving all that money to youth rugby. Simplistic and ill-informed at best, utter bogus at worst.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Peat, post: 393024, member: 42330"] A few quick points... None of the Ulster lads who played against Wales but didn't against England are being held back by foreigners except possibly Gilroy by Danielli and frankly Gilroy's taking his place already. There aren't really any promising young props at Ulster, save for Paddy McAllister who sat on the bench for a HC QF aged 21 and has now started at least two Interpros and is quite clearly not being held back. Actually... slightly harsh. There's promising props, props who might make it. McAllister is the only stand out one there though. Right now, it is more important for Ulster's long term future, and the long term future of the group of young players coming through in the backs, to have a top class tighthead then muddle along hoping you were wrong about one of them. Now, Cymro's post on the last page was by far the most pertinent here. Players like Botha and Elsom who raise the players around them are excellent investments. Players like Timoci Nagusa, Borlase so far et al... aren't. But thats an indictment on decision making, not the whole idea. Smartcooky, your facts about players getting starts and opportunities is sadly off. Conway and Macken have both had starts for Leinster this season and McKeon's featured for Connacht. Think Qualter has too. Both McKeon and Macken got injured over the course of the campaign. And, while I can't be arsed to dig up full facts and figures, usually over 2/3rds of an England U20 squad come the JWC will have played first team senior rugby with usually around a third having played some serious time. A lot of the squad will be a year young too. Out of the 2009 JWC squad, we've already had 2 full internationals and 3 Saxons. Right now, bunch of foreigners or not, our player development is spot on. And I see your Luke Romano and raise you Joe Marler. I would have said Corbierso, but its already happened. And so on. How many average SH fans had heard of Ben Youngs the summer before he tore Australia a new one? You're also asking different questions when you compare Zac Guildford and co to the amount of Irish players making it who are currently in the U20s. From the last couple of seasons there are a number of players. Using the 2009 batch again - Ruddock is a full international, Spence and Ryan are A internationals, McAllister, O'Mahony and Murray are all very good bets to get A caps in the next year. Maybe not the flood that there in NZ, but 6 players of that quality a year makes a strong international team. Which is not to say the young systems in a lot of NH countries couldn't be improved, or that they're not working on it and investing in it. But they're not weak, and things aren't going to be improved by vowing never to buy a SH player again and giving all that money to youth rugby. Simplistic and ill-informed at best, utter bogus at worst. [/QUOTE]
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