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Jean Kleyn
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<blockquote data-quote="Cruz_del_Sur" data-source="post: 1134206" data-attributes="member: 55747"><p>Forgive my cynicism but one could easily argue that's a way for tier 1 teams to poach tier 2's best. Test rugby is not a grant-your-wish foundation so that players who are good but not good enough for their national team could have a crack at a world cup playing for another nation. </p><p>Well, it actually is, but I believe it shouldn't. That is precisely the problem. </p><p>You could even state it in the law: 'Players from tier 1 RU can go to tier 2 national teams but not vice versa'. But they won't. Because that ruins the poaching. And sure, someone will come up with a stat that shows there are more NZ-born playing for other pac islanders than the other way around. What they won't mention is that the ones who do so did it because they couldn't make it to the All Blacks. The opposite doesn't work. The quality of the players that shift from one team to another, sadly, matters. </p><p></p><p>Basically you are advocating for, dunno, the Netherlands which can't produce their own to go out shopping for the breadcrumbs of South Africa's system so that they could beat other nations with (potentially) stronger grassroots and development systems. You probably don't give a flying turd, but quite a few in Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium do. </p><p></p><p>That is not what I want. And the hypocrisy, dear lord. It's SOO evident that it pains me to even have to mention it. Everyone cries foul whenever the situation hurts their national teams but looks the other way when it benefits them. I don't mean you (<strong>seriously, i don't</strong>), but a LOT of your countrymen are going at Kleyn as if he were some sort of traitor. Throw a CJ Stander comment in the mix and wow, the reactions. "no, that is completely different". </p><p>No, it's not. </p><p></p><p>You either want a system that encourages national teams to purchase players from other countries or a system that does what it can to prevent that from happening. The rest is just bells and whistles. </p><p></p><p>The tier thing is, imo, an insult to injury. If switching teams if not something desired then what the hell does the tier have to do with it? </p><p>A lot of people are talking about Tonga's/Samoa's squad for the world cup. All apparently happy about it. 'Look at that back line, amazing to see them playing together in a world cup!'. Ask a Roumanian or a Chilean about it, see how that goes. It destroys their effort. Kills it. These teams go through a lot, i mean a LOT to get to a world cup. </p><p></p><p>Or we could have the old boys club we've had and pretend we're expanding. We can tell each other that ad nauseam. We can even make a ppt about it while the heads of all top 10 RU nod in unison and congratulate each other. </p><p></p><p></p><p>/end rand</p><p></p><p>PS: nothing against you. Just took the opportunity to blow off some steam.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cruz_del_Sur, post: 1134206, member: 55747"] Forgive my cynicism but one could easily argue that's a way for tier 1 teams to poach tier 2's best. Test rugby is not a grant-your-wish foundation so that players who are good but not good enough for their national team could have a crack at a world cup playing for another nation. Well, it actually is, but I believe it shouldn't. That is precisely the problem. You could even state it in the law: 'Players from tier 1 RU can go to tier 2 national teams but not vice versa'. But they won't. Because that ruins the poaching. And sure, someone will come up with a stat that shows there are more NZ-born playing for other pac islanders than the other way around. What they won't mention is that the ones who do so did it because they couldn't make it to the All Blacks. The opposite doesn't work. The quality of the players that shift from one team to another, sadly, matters. Basically you are advocating for, dunno, the Netherlands which can't produce their own to go out shopping for the breadcrumbs of South Africa's system so that they could beat other nations with (potentially) stronger grassroots and development systems. You probably don't give a flying turd, but quite a few in Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium do. That is not what I want. And the hypocrisy, dear lord. It's SOO evident that it pains me to even have to mention it. Everyone cries foul whenever the situation hurts their national teams but looks the other way when it benefits them. I don't mean you ([B]seriously, i don't[/B]), but a LOT of your countrymen are going at Kleyn as if he were some sort of traitor. Throw a CJ Stander comment in the mix and wow, the reactions. "no, that is completely different". No, it's not. You either want a system that encourages national teams to purchase players from other countries or a system that does what it can to prevent that from happening. The rest is just bells and whistles. The tier thing is, imo, an insult to injury. If switching teams if not something desired then what the hell does the tier have to do with it? A lot of people are talking about Tonga's/Samoa's squad for the world cup. All apparently happy about it. 'Look at that back line, amazing to see them playing together in a world cup!'. Ask a Roumanian or a Chilean about it, see how that goes. It destroys their effort. Kills it. These teams go through a lot, i mean a LOT to get to a world cup. Or we could have the old boys club we've had and pretend we're expanding. We can tell each other that ad nauseam. We can even make a ppt about it while the heads of all top 10 RU nod in unison and congratulate each other. /end rand PS: nothing against you. Just took the opportunity to blow off some steam. [/QUOTE]
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