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International Test Matches
Lancaster = Martin Johnson
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<blockquote data-quote="j&#039;nuh" data-source="post: 688207" data-attributes="member: 55446"><p><strong>I think there are three key points to counter this:</strong></p><p></p><p>First, the standard of most teams have increased in this WC cycle over the last (imo). Lancaster has had to contend with playing better teams than Johnson did, and has still managed a better win %. England's Six Nations win in 2011 was lacklustre. I doubt the same team would have won in the years since.</p><p></p><p>Second, I don't think judging a head coach's skill on the basis of away wins against SANZAR is a good barometer. In Lions years, England don't play the main three (Argentina in 2009 and 2013) and in WC years, there is no tour at all. Any given WC cycle, there are two tours against SANZAR teams - 5 or 6 games in total. I don't think Johnson achieving a one-point win at the pinnacle of his tenure against the weakest of the SANZAR teams who had a number of injuries, tells you much. I would also point out that Johnson had access to four backs that were absolutely on-fire at the time: Youngs, Flood, Ashton and Foden. All four, on the form they were at the time, would coast into any Lancaster-era backline easily.</p><p></p><p>Third, England have a better home record against SANZAR under Lancaster. Not just for win ratio, but also for how close the games have been.</p><p></p><p>Lancaster:</p><p>2012</p><p>England 14 - 20 Australia</p><p>England 15 - 16 South Africa</p><p>England 38 - 21 New Zealand</p><p>2013</p><p>England 20 - 13 Australia</p><p>England 22 - 30 New Zealand</p><p>2014</p><p>England 21 - 24 New Zealand</p><p></p><p>That is, a 33% win record and 83% of games either won or lost by less than 7. (Biggest losing margin is 8 points.)</p><p>Even if you discount the New Zealand game for norovirus or whatever, it is a 20% win record and 80% of games won or lost by less than 7.</p><p></p><p>Johnson:</p><p>2008</p><p>England 14 - 28 Australia</p><p>England 6 - 42 South Africa</p><p>England 6 - 32 New Zealand</p><p>2009</p><p>England 9 - 14 Australia</p><p>England 6 - 19 New Zealand</p><p>2010</p><p>England 16 - 26 New Zealand</p><p>England 35 - 18 Australia</p><p>England 11 - 21 South Africa</p><p></p><p>That is, a 12.5% win record and 25% of games either won or lost by less than 7. (Biggest losing margin is 36 points.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="j'nuh, post: 688207, member: 55446"] [B]I think there are three key points to counter this:[/B] First, the standard of most teams have increased in this WC cycle over the last (imo). Lancaster has had to contend with playing better teams than Johnson did, and has still managed a better win %. England's Six Nations win in 2011 was lacklustre. I doubt the same team would have won in the years since. Second, I don't think judging a head coach's skill on the basis of away wins against SANZAR is a good barometer. In Lions years, England don't play the main three (Argentina in 2009 and 2013) and in WC years, there is no tour at all. Any given WC cycle, there are two tours against SANZAR teams - 5 or 6 games in total. I don't think Johnson achieving a one-point win at the pinnacle of his tenure against the weakest of the SANZAR teams who had a number of injuries, tells you much. I would also point out that Johnson had access to four backs that were absolutely on-fire at the time: Youngs, Flood, Ashton and Foden. All four, on the form they were at the time, would coast into any Lancaster-era backline easily. Third, England have a better home record against SANZAR under Lancaster. Not just for win ratio, but also for how close the games have been. Lancaster: 2012 England 14 - 20 Australia England 15 - 16 South Africa England 38 - 21 New Zealand 2013 England 20 - 13 Australia England 22 - 30 New Zealand 2014 England 21 - 24 New Zealand That is, a 33% win record and 83% of games either won or lost by less than 7. (Biggest losing margin is 8 points.) Even if you discount the New Zealand game for norovirus or whatever, it is a 20% win record and 80% of games won or lost by less than 7. Johnson: 2008 England 14 - 28 Australia England 6 - 42 South Africa England 6 - 32 New Zealand 2009 England 9 - 14 Australia England 6 - 19 New Zealand 2010 England 16 - 26 New Zealand England 35 - 18 Australia England 11 - 21 South Africa That is, a 12.5% win record and 25% of games either won or lost by less than 7. (Biggest losing margin is 36 points.) [/QUOTE]
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Lancaster = Martin Johnson
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