Leinster v ASM Clermont Auvergne

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Not travelling well is one thing, saying Leinster will get a bonus point win is another. In 13 Top 14 games this season Clermont Auvergne have conceded 7 tries. Playing in front of 45K-50K fans won't phase a team which is stacked with internationals and has played 4 consecutive Top 14 finals in the Stade de France.

I thnk Leinster will win but it won't be a bonus point victory. If Leinster do pick up 5 points, I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong! Leinster by between 3 and 10 points.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm not saying Leinster should get the BP but that they are well capable of doing it. Although I do have to admit alot drpends on Heaslip as in what is he like with the injury and BOD will be right up against it on his return

 

[shtove]

The Horgan pass on 78 mins was NOT forward. Jeez, what does it take for Nigel Owens to understand the effect of the passer's momentum? Just because the ball is caught forward of the passing point does not mean the pass was forward - all that matters is whether the pass was forward/flat/behind at the point of release. And Iuean Evans agreed with him? Thought the Welsh knew all about passing.

Well done Leinster - up against a stronger team, but smart play wins the day.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The Horgan pass on 78 mins was NOT forward. Jeez, what does it take for Nigel Owens to understand the effect of the passer's momentum? Just because the ball is caught forward of the passing point does not mean the pass was forward - all that matters is whether the pass was forward/flat/behind at the point of release. And Iuean Evans agreed with him? Thought the Welsh knew all about passing.

Well done Leinster - up against a stronger team, but smart play wins the day.

DEFINITION: THROW FORWARD
A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

I personally thought that the pass was forward, and its not the Welsh thing either. The rules in the book are as above, thought the ball was travelling towards the teams dead ball line, makes no mention of the release from the hand or anything.

 

[Duckdee]

The ball went forward but didn't? Wut?

 

[shtove]

The ball went forward but didn't? Wut?

There's a good video on this from Australia, but can't find link.

If you run forward at steady pace and throw the ball straight up in the air, it's a flat pass to yourself. You catch the pass as you continue your run, but 5m further forward - the ball doesn't land on the spot you passed it from, but has travelled forward at the same pace as your run. Yet the pass is still flat. The 5m forward bit is down to your momentum, which stayed with the ball as you passed it.

 

[Feicarsinn]

There's a good video on this from Australia, but can't find link.

If you run forward at steady pace and throw the ball straight up in the air, it's a flat pass to yourself. You catch the pass as you continue your run, but 5m further forward - the ball doesn't land on the spot you passed it from, but has travelled forward at the same pace as your run. Yet the pass is still flat. The 5m forward bit is down to your momentum, which stayed with the ball as you passed it.

Completely correct. Look at it from a physics point of view. Say Horgan is running at 8m/s before he passes. Both he and the ball will be traveling at this speed. Now let's say he executes a flat pass. The ball will be moving at 8m/s towards the opposition's tryline after he stops touching it and then begins decelerating. If Horgan's pass is interpreted as forward, then all flat passes while a player is in motion in the direction of the opposition's are forward. Simple as.

 

[profitius]

There's a good video on this from Australia, but can't find link.

If you run forward at steady pace and throw the ball straight up in the air, it's a flat pass to yourself. You catch the pass as you continue your run, but 5m further forward - the ball doesn't land on the spot you passed it from, but has travelled forward at the same pace as your run. Yet the pass is still flat. The 5m forward bit is down to your momentum, which stayed with the ball as you passed it.

I think its called inertia but I stand to be corrected. Anyway the Shane Horgan call was wrong. He threw the ball backwards but the momentum made it go slightly forward. Thats supposed to be allowed in rugby. its hard for the refs to judge though.

 

[Amobokoboko]

A good game of rugby, both teams giving it a 100% but Leinster being lethal every time they got the ball.

 

[MunsterMan]

The forward pass law is not specific enough, could use clarification from the IRB. If I was a referee I would only penalise players for when they actually throw the ball forward (not when the the ball travels forward due to momentum etc. ) as that is a possible interpretation of the law, and the one which favours exciting play the most, but it is not the only interpretation looking at the post up the page a bit. Owens' decision was perfectly acceptable.

 

[coonor]

I didn't think the pass was forward but the really poor call was Owens not awarding the Hines try. The TMO is there for a reason and Owens was lucky that try didn't not have more of an impact.

A great win for Leinster and we matched Clermont physically and beat them in speed. Leinster varied their attack very well and Clermonts defence was not up to it. Scrum was good and you can see how much its improved from last season.

Sean O'brien was brilliant clearing up things and making the gain line everytime.
Cian Healy was very impressive in the scrum, at the breakdown and with ball in hand.
Straus, Horgan, Mcfadden and Nacewa were all very good aswell.

 

[Duckdee]

I get ya now, ta for the science lesson.

 

[Feicarsinn]

What a great game. Leinster really showed up today. Very physical and very quick. O'Brien was absolutely immense all day, once again proving he's the best seven in the country by quite a margin. Should start in the Italy game.

Ross was also superb. What a contrast between himself and Buckle on Saturday. Leinster actually dominated Clermont in the tight while Munster got mangled. A must for the TH shirt in the Six Nations. Newland was crap again however.

Cullen and Hines were once again very good. Put good pressure on the Clermont lineout and along with Strauss ensured a good flow of posession all day.

Our halfbacks were pretty good. Reddan did what he was brought in to do while Sexton gave another assured performance.

All in all, a fantastic day.

 

[munstermuffin]

What did we learn over weekend - ????

Keith Earls, Sean O'Brien and Mike Ross are been left out of Irish team because they are playing well. Varley should be in 22 and Heaslip just continues to defy logic.

Great result for Leinster and well should qualify now

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

What's most disappointing is that we learned those things 2 months ago yet the Ireland coach did nothing. 45,000 fans got to witness two teams trying to play exciting, attacking rugby. All bar the Clermont supporters (and probably Declan Kidney too) must have been impressed by Sean O'Brien and Mike Ross. As Conor O'Shea alluded to, instead of concentrating on what Ross can't do, why not look at how best to utilise his strengths? He'll never be a world class ball carrier but he's improving in that regard. He does his primary task of locking the scrum better than anyone else in the country and allows players like Sean O'Brien, Nathan Hines, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy and Jamie Heaslip puch holes in opposition defences. It works for Leinster and can work for Ireland too.

Coming on top of the result in the other group game, this weekend couldn't have been much better for Leinster.

Clermont were beaten all ends up but they're a joy to watch. Clearly the Leinster head coach is trying to model his new team on the one he left behind in France.

 

[lucky number 7]

Sean O Brien......Just godlike ...

 

[munstermuffin]

What's most disappointing is that we learned those things 2 months ago yet the Ireland coach did nothing. 45,000 fans got to witness two teams trying to play exciting, attacking rugby. All bar the Clermont supporters (and probably Declan Kidney too) must have been impressed by Sean O'Brien and Mike Ross. As Conor O'Shea alluded to, instead of concentrating on what Ross can't do, why not look at how best to utilise his strengths? He'll never be a world class ball carrier but he's improving in that regard. He does his primary task of locking the scrum better than anyone else in the country and allows players like Sean O'Brien, Nathan Hines, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy and Jamie Heaslip puch holes in opposition defences. It works for Leinster and can work for Ireland too.

Coming on top of the result in the other group game, this weekend couldn't have been much better for Leinster.

Clermont were beaten all ends up but they're a joy to watch. Clearly the Leinster head coach is trying to model his new team on the one he left behind in France.

Agreed Snoop and well in todays game the scrum is vital. We have enough ball carriers in Irish team and don't need Ross to be that. Ireland really wasted using form players in provinces and testing them in AI's

 

[shtove]

I think its called inertia but I stand to be corrected. Anyway the Shane Horgan call was wrong. He threw the ball backwards but the momentum made it go slightly forward. Thats supposed to be allowed in rugby. its hard for the refs to judge though.

It's hard to judge when it's a short pass and the passer is tackled at the moment he releases the ball. The notorious RWC 07 French pass against the ABs is a great example. I think that was forward, but I'm not sure.

What Horgan did took great strength and skill, and for the ref to call it back is just crap. Sure, the ball travelled forward alot because of the time it spent in the air, but it's ridiculous to have a brilliant piece of play killed because the ref doesn't take account of the speed of play.