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TRF C A Iversen

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And there the arguement goes belly up... If just 1 copy of the game is out there, you can put money on it someone has made a torrent. also, steam is very easily hackable, anyone who played counterstrike source (fully online) before hl2s release can confirm this.

Stopping game piracy is like stopping the sun rising.

Slowing it, minimising it, delaying it. All marginally possible though and I'm sure HB realise that there is less of this going on on the Xbox 360 than there was the Xbox and none at all (yet) on the PS3.
 

Teh Mite

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The myth that the PS3 is unhackable is about the same alongside Steam being unhackable.

If the software and the hardware is there, the potential for hacking it is there also. It's like saying petrol won't work if poured out of a jerry can instead of a pump.
 

TRF C A Iversen

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The myth that the PS3 is unhackable is about the same alongside Steam being unhackable.

If the software and the hardware is there, the potential for hacking it is there also. It's like saying petrol won't work if poured out of a jerry can instead of a pump.

Do you have a metaphor for everything? :D We all know that it can be done, but it's not workable yet. One guy managed to get in through the linux os, so they removed that from any updated online consoles. I'm just saying piracy isn't a real issue on the PS3 yet, and I did use the word "yet" above.
 

StevoIRL

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And there the arguement goes belly up... If just 1 copy of the game is out there, you can put money on it someone has made a torrent. also, steam is very easily hackable, anyone who played counterstrike source (fully online) before hl2s release can confirm this.

Stopping game piracy is like stopping the sun rising.

Of course this game will be uploaded on torrent sites when it comes out, it's a given with any game. The real question is will there be a high volume of downloaders and seeders that would suggest that the majority of this games users are infact pirates. Now considering this isn't a AAA sports game compared to Fifa or Madden you won't get the same amount of interest in people pirating it, in fact i think (hopefully) the majority of rugby followers who have been begging for this game to come out for the past 3 years know what the stakes are at this stage and that this game needs to be bought when released to prove to HB and other studios (hell even the publishers) that it's financially viable to release a rugby game on all 3 systems. If there is a multiplayer mode included with a durable online registration it ll feature as a deterrent to pirating this game since every rugby gamer since day one has asked for online multiplayer.
 

TRF C A Iversen

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Of course this game will be uploaded on torrent sites when it comes out, it's a given with any game. The real question is will there be a high volume of downloaders and seeders that would suggest that the majority of this games users are infact pirates. Now considering this isn't a AAA sports game compared to Fifa or Madden you won't get the same amount of interest in people pirating it, in fact i think (hopefully) the majority of rugby followers who have been begging for this game to come out for the past 3 years know what the stakes are at this stage and that this game needs to be bought when released to prove to HB and other studios (hell even the publishers) that it's financially viable to release a rugby game on all 3 systems. If there is a multiplayer mode included with a durable online registration it ll feature as a deterrent to pirating this game since every rugby gamer since day one has asked for online multiplayer.

Saying rugby gamers know what the stakes are and surely there won't be a high number of piraters, is not quite correct I'm sorry. Some will have a conscience and buy a copy of the game, but a large number won't. Many will think "it won't matter if only I do it", or "my one copy won't make a difference". That's how it happens.

My case is proven by Rugby '08. The PS2 was the only version created on consoles, even though the game was being made in late'06 and released in mid '07, when the XBox was still viable for new release ***les. Why? The number of people pirating on the PS2 was massively lower than the Xbox at the time. The PS2 slim was harder to mod at the time as the circuit board was much more delicate. The big old clunky Xbox had every man and his dog modding it because it was easier and you could replace the internal HDD with a new one relatively easily.

So, the greatest version of Rugby to date (at the time), Rugby '06 on Xbox was also the biggest victim of piracy.

Meanwhile the PC version of Rugby '08 was ridiculously pirated. Pirated beyond belief.

The conscience wasn't there then, it's not there now.
 

jamtheman

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Saying rugby gamers know what the stakes are and surely there won't be a high number of piraters, is not quite correct I'm sorry. Some will have a conscience and buy a copy of the game, but a large number won't. Many will think "it won't matter if only I do it", or "my one copy won't make a difference". That's how it happens.

My case is proven by Rugby '08. The PS2 was the only version created on consoles, even though the game was being made in late'06 and released in mid '07, when the XBox was still viable for new release ***les. Why? The number of people pirating on the PS2 was massively lower than the Xbox at the time. The PS2 slim was harder to mod at the time as the circuit board was much more delicate. The big old clunky Xbox had every man and his dog modding it because it was easier and you could replace the internal HDD with a new one relatively easily.

So, the greatest version of Rugby to date (at the time), Rugby '06 on Xbox was also the biggest victim of piracy.

Meanwhile the PC version of Rugby '08 was ridiculously pirated. Pirated beyond belief.

The conscience wasn't there then, it's not there now.

So the solution for game companies, instead of developing ways of limiting how their game can be pirated, is to simply stop releasing games on PC.

Oh ok.

The introduction of an online mode, with built-in game verification/"Official" game servers would already limit the amount of people who would/could pirate it massively.

Personally, I bought Rugby 08, but it was such a piece of crap (slliiiightly better graphics, less tournaments, completely incorrect rosters) that you can't blame people for not wanting to waste money on it.
 

V99ish

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Personally, I bought Rugby 08, but it was such a piece of crap (slliiiightly better graphics, less tournaments, completely incorrect rosters) that you can't blame people for not wanting to waste money on it.

I never played Rugby 06 - so I was really impressed after I brought Rugby 08 since I hadn't played the previous one.
Looking at videos / screenshots Rugby 06 is very very similar to 08.

If HB Studios introduce an online feature and put it on Steam - it would be a lot less pirated than being a standalone ***le.
 

TRF C A Iversen

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So the solution for game companies, instead of developing ways of limiting how their game can be pirated, is to simply stop releasing games on PC.

Oh ok.

The introduction of an online mode, with built-in game verification/"Official" game servers would already limit the amount of people who would/could pirate it massively.

Personally, I bought Rugby 08, but it was such a piece of crap (slliiiightly better graphics, less tournaments, completely incorrect rosters) that you can't blame people for not wanting to waste money on it.


Of course I can't blame people for not wanting to spend money on it. Absolutely correct! I can however blame them for choosing to go through the effort to illegally obtain it when the could have waited and bought it for a discounted price.

"So the solution for game companies, instead of developing ways of limiting how their game can be pirated, is to simply stop releasing games on PC". No, I never said that's the solution. Your making up my point of view for me. How very good of you. What I was implying however is that it's totally understandable that console versions (and their associated sales) would be the preferred option at this stage for a franchise which needs to make money. They don't make these games to lose cash, much as you wouldn't likely donate a large sum of cash towards HB Studios to help make the game and then also pay for the game. You or anyone else simply doesn't have that money to throw away.

People are talking as though their rights are being infringed on. Has any PC user stated that they feel bad for HB's previous lost sales? Anyone expressed how they are super ****** off by pirates ruining what games they can now get on PC? Not so much.

This is merely anger directed outwards when the blame lies within the PC user circle. And that's the truth.
 

Hamez

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Saying rugby gamers know what the stakes are and surely there won't be a high number of piraters, is not quite correct I'm sorry. Some will have a conscience and buy a copy of the game, but a large number won't. Many will think "it won't matter if only I do it", or "my one copy won't make a difference". That's how it happens.

My case is proven by Rugby '08. The PS2 was the only version created on consoles, even though the game was being made in late'06 and released in mid '07, when the XBox was still viable for new release ***les. Why? The number of people pirating on the PS2 was massively lower than the Xbox at the time. The PS2 slim was harder to mod at the time as the circuit board was much more delicate. The big old clunky Xbox had every man and his dog modding it because it was easier and you could replace the internal HDD with a new one relatively easily.

So, the greatest version of Rugby to date (at the time), Rugby '06 on Xbox was also the biggest victim of piracy.

Meanwhile the PC version of Rugby '08 was ridiculously pirated. Pirated beyond belief.

The conscience wasn't there then, it's not there now.

I think '08 being extremely hard to find to buy would have boosted the numbers by heaps. I struggled to find a ps2 version, I still have never seen a hard copy version of rugby 08 in stores.
 

Duckdee

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So the solution for game companies, instead of developing ways of limiting how their game can be pirated, is to simply stop releasing games on PC.

Oh ok.

The introduction of an online mode, with built-in game verification/"Official" game servers would already limit the amount of people who would/could pirate it massively.
DRM doesn't work.
 

Woldog

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Plus with the world cup looming they will try and cash in on all markets.
 

StevoIRL

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Of course I can't blame people for not wanting to spend money on it. Absolutely correct! I can however blame them for choosing to go through the effort to illegally obtain it when the could have waited and bought it for a discounted price.

"So the solution for game companies, instead of developing ways of limiting how their game can be pirated, is to simply stop releasing games on PC". No, I never said that's the solution. Your making up my point of view for me. How very good of you. What I was implying however is that it's totally understandable that console versions (and their associated sales) would be the preferred option at this stage for a franchise which needs to make money. They don't make these games to lose cash, much as you wouldn't likely donate a large sum of cash towards HB Studios to help make the game and then also pay for the game. You or anyone else simply doesn't have that money to throw away.

People are talking as though their rights are being infringed on. Has any PC user stated that they feel bad for HB's previous lost sales? Anyone expressed how they are super ****** off by pirates ruining what games they can now get on PC? Not so much.

This is merely anger directed outwards when the blame lies within the PC user circle. And that's the truth.



Do you have any figures suggest how many units were lost to piracy?
Have you considered that those pirates in question did so as a middle finger to HB for just re releasing Rugby 06 with a new name?
Until HB comes forward and says yes the percentage that pirated Rugby 06/08 for the PC was a higher percentage then those that paided money for the game ill take it as a cheap excuse not to release this on the PC. Hell would HB even approached TRF is it wasn't for this sites dedicated modding support on the PC VERSION of 06/08.
 

Hamez

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Do you have any figures suggest how many units were lost to piracy?
Have you considered that those pirates in question did so as a middle finger to HB for just re releasing Rugby 06 with a new name?
Until HB comes forward and says yes the percentage that pirated Rugby 06/08 for the PC was a higher percentage then those that paided money for the game ill take it as a cheap excuse not to release this on the PC. Hell would HB even approached TRF is it wasn't for this sites dedicated modding support on the PC VERSION of 06/08.

I don't know what it was like on pc but '08 was a great improvement on '06 you especially saw the differences when playing vs real people.
 

TRF C A Iversen

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Do you have any figures suggest how many units were lost to piracy?
Have you considered that those pirates in question did so as a middle finger to HB for just re releasing Rugby 06 with a new name?
Until HB comes forward and says yes the percentage that pirated Rugby 06/08 for the PC was a higher percentage then those that paided money for the game ill take it as a cheap excuse not to release this on the PC. Hell would HB even approached TRF is it wasn't for this sites dedicated modding support on the PC VERSION of 06/08.


Let's answer your questions.

I don't have specific figures, but there's plenty of evidence around the web when you've been following rugby gaming development (and sports gaming in general) for as long as I have. For a start-off I can recently refer to the information given in HB's Q&A on this very forum. They have stated that people would be very surprised which version of Rugby sold the least. That can only be a reference to '06 and to a lesser extent '08.

Why? Quite simply, people hated '04, yet '05 came out very quickly. People thought '05 was fairly flawed, but '06 was out reasonably quickly also. '06 reviewed the best with online review sites all over the place, was a big hit with the fans, people on this site (which HB had been watching) thought it was the best yet. Still, it took two years and 3 months for '08 to come out in mid '07, with the Xbox cut-out which was still an easy port either way you look at it. The Xbox was extremely pirated, if you don't know this, there's no helping you in this conversation.

'08 then went on to have no successor to date. It's all dollars and cents. If a game is profitable enough, a new version will come out. The last two obviously did not make enough. PC has been the most pirated format for years and here we are.

I have some facts to back up my version of events. You've merely come on the forum and asked me to prove myself. Why not prove that I'm wrong with some facts?

By the way, if anyone thinks piracy is not a huge problem in the world-wide software industry, then they are kidding themselves. This article came out today which I found interesting.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/3703560/Kiwis-go-unrewarded-for-low-piracy-rates



"Have you considered that those pirates in question did so as a middle finger to HB for just re releasing Rugby 06 with a new name?"

Well it wasn't exactly the same, the AI plays a little differently (still weakly though), new line-out method, new drop-kick system (which sucked) a licensed World Cup mode, Rugby World Cup challenges, new camera options, slightly altered maul and scrum mechanisms, removal of a Lions Tour. How is that the same game?

I think it was a small leap forward in some ways, a bit average in many other ways, and a step backwards in name licensing and Lions Tour removal. Still it was not the same game.

Here's an important thing to remember if you or anyone else "sticks their middle finger up" at HB (who are the only people wanting to develop Rugby games), then you are a fool trying to kill the series. We don't have another option, we have to buy these games and make damn sure they keep making them. You sound just like the kind of pirates who've helped kill this series. Well done (sarcasm in case you missed that).


"Until HB comes forward and says yes the percentage that pirated Rugby 06/08 for the PC was a higher percentage then those that paided money for the game ill take it as a cheap excuse not to release this on the PC".

Okay it's a cheap excuse is it? Wellllllllll, what's the real secret reason? They just want to **** off PC users for some random reason? There's really no piracy issue and they are just trying to **** off a segment of their market? Fooooolish view-point mate.

"Hell would HB even approached TRF is it wasn't for this sites dedicated modding support on the PC VERSION of 06/08."

Modding itself is not something any developer really cares about as long as each modder buys the original and holds onto it.
 

TRF C A Iversen

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Great post C.A. Completely agree with that.

Cheers best fullback. I also have to state (because I didn't before), that I absolutely feel for EVERY honest PC gamer out there. This is a real kick in the knackers for them, but has sadly come from their not so wonderful peers, not HB.
 

Duckdee

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Cheers best fullback. I also have to state (because I didn't before), that I absolutely feel for EVERY honest PC gamer out there. This is a real kick in the knackers for them, but has sadly come from their not so wonderful peers, not HB.
Pun intended? ;)

(That's an angry looking wink.)
 

Celestial Panda

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There is a very easy way to get what you want!!!
Why don't you GO AND ASK EA?
Having a publisher breathe down your neck from the very beginnings of making a game is not generally an attractive proposition on behalf of the developers.
They could ask EA, but then EA would have a large amount of control over proceedings, and I assume that is not necessarily what HB want.
 

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