Question for the refs

[Peat]

If a player is in in touch, and touches down the ball in his own try area, is the ball ruled to have gone dead as he touched the ball while in touch and therefore a scrum, or to have been touched down and therefore a 22? I thought it was the former, but was told of an incident in the Bath game where it was ruled to be the latter, and was hoping someone could clear the logic of this up for me.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

The ball going dead and it being touched down are exactly the same.
The only time it is not is when the opposing team has kicked (and only kicked) into the in-goal. If the ball is still moving when a player picks it up while being out of bounds, it counts as the ball going dead straight (and therefore a scrum where the ball was kicked can be chosen). If the ball has stopped moving, it counts as the player carrying it out of bounds, and a 22 is had.

Edit: Law 22.8 and 22.9

 

[Peat]

Was a kick, hence the confusion. Didn't check with my friend whether the ball had stopped moving, probably was what had happened - mea culpa.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I remember the incident.

Banahan lay down with his feet in touch and touched the ball down without picking it up, while it was still moving.
Ref was clear that he needed to pick it up for it to count as going dead.

 

[smartcooky]

If a player is in in touch, and touches down the ball in his own try area, is the ball ruled to have gone dead as he touched the ball while in touch and therefore a scrum, or to have been touched down and therefore a 22? I thought it was the former, but was told of an incident in the Bath game where it was ruled to be the latter, and was hoping someone could clear the logic of this up for me.

[TEXTAREA]LAW 19.5 PLAYER WITH FOOT IN TOUCH
(a) If a player with one or both feet on or beyond the touch-line (or touch-in-goal line), picks up
the ball, which was stationary within the playing area, that player has picked up the ball in
the playing area and thereby that player has taken the ball into touch (or touch-in-goal).
(b) If a player with one or both feet on or beyond the touch-line (or touch-in-goal line), picks up
the ball, which was in motion within the playing area, that player is deemed to have picked
up the ball in touch (or touch-in-goal).[/TEXTAREA]

So, in General Play

1. Red kicks ball into in-goal - ball is rolling towards dead-ball line - Blue player with a foot in touch-in-goal or over dead ball line picks up the ball
► Red has kicked the ball through in-goal
► Options for Blue - Drop Out 22m or scrum back where the ball was kicked from. Blue to throw in

2. Red kicks ball into in-goal - ball stops just before dead-ball line - Blue player with a foot in touch-in-goal or over dead ball line picks up the ball
► Red has kicked the ball into in-goal and the ball has been maded dead by Blue
► Drop out 22m

From a kick-off, restart or drop-out however, its slightly different. The player grounding the ball or making it dead in-goal need not have a foot in touch, but he must ground the ball without delay.

KICK OFF OR RESTART
[TEXTAREA]13.9 BALL GOES INTO THE IN-GOAL
(a) If the ball is kicked into the in-goal without having touched or been touched by a player, the
opposing team has three choices:
To ground the ball, or
To make it dead, or
To play on.
(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead
by going into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, they have two choices:
To have a scrum formed at the centre, and they throw in the ball, or
To have the other team kick off again.
(c) If they opt to ground the ball or make it dead, they must do so without delay. Any other
action with the ball by a defending player means the player has elected to play on.[/TEXTAREA]

DROP OUT
[TEXTAREA]13.15 DROP-OUT GOES INTO THE OPPONENTS’ IN-GOAL
(a) If the ball is kicked into the opponents’ in-goal without having touched or been touched by a
player, the opposing team has three choices:
To ground the ball, or
To make it dead, or
To play on.
(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or makes it dead, or if the ball becomes dead by
going into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, they have two choices:
To have a scrum formed at the centre of the 22-metre line from where the kick was taken
and they throw in the ball, or
To have the other team drop-out again.
(c) If they opt to ground the ball or make it dead, they must do so without delay. Any other
action with the ball by a defending player means the player has elected to play on.[/TEXTAREA]