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Referees in-game coaching i.e. their constant commands

TRF_heineken

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Not for 40 years. And I do appreciate the game has changed a great deal since then especially the big bang in 1995 of professionalism. I also appreciate that players, refs and spectators (and of course pundits) will all see the game from different perspectives and have different agendas.
There are many conflicting ideals that come to the fore on this site and the overriding one with respect to Rugby Union in general is that it must be both watchable and entertaining; hence the seemingly overwhelming attitude to see as many tries scored in a game as possible; supported by the inducements firstly of more points per try and bonus points for 4 or more tries. And with the requirement to be entertaining then this element can only be judged by those watching the game itself. So where it is welcomed to hear from a players perspective it is the spectators who need to be satisfied (for want of a better phrase). Its ok for the ref to give a running commentary but his commands/warnings/directions coupled with the need to see more tries run in are eating further into the natural game and the worry is it will lose a lot of its appeal due to the artificial elements that are being imposed. Please dont get me wrong. We all love to see a try scored. But as a result well worked and well taken drop goals (which have won world cups in the past) are going out of fashion in that quest for that 4th try and elusive bonus point. It's just my opinion but the game is changing (not for the better) and this is not being helped by the referees commentary.
There is a bit of contradiction in this remark.

But I think the main issue here is that you are putting way too much blame on the referees and not on other factors of the modern game.

Let's take drop goals as an example. The reason we see less drop goals, is because players don't practice it as much as in the past, and some players don't want to take the risk of attempting the drop goal when there is a possibility to score tries. But with that said, in South Africa, the drop goal is still a very good weapon, and it's still seen a lot. Just this past weekend, during the warm-ups for the rainbow cup, the Cheetahs fullback made a drop goal from his own half. The referee had no influence whatsoever in him taking the chance.
 

califauna

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Rugby Union rules and officiating are a gigantic group-think clusterfuck and if they intend on exporting it to the USA without the US coming up with their own version of it they'd better to sort it quick. Some of it boils down to the fundamentals of how the game is played and world rugby don't seem to be able to grab even the low hanging fruit at the moment so persoanlly I don't hold out much hope of them avoiding that, or for it taking off there. Arbitrary calls like 'use it' during mauls have no place in the game and most of the time are actually frustrating for viewers not helpful rom a spectator point of view. Other calls do help improve the flow though I think.

The scrum rituals, the constant professional time-wasting, the pre-game chats with referees to find out how they're going to apply the rules, the whole thing is FUBAR.

At any rate, US audiences used to tight, no-nonsense officiating and application of rules rather than constant interpretation like as happens in Rugby will either just turn off or give up trying to understand. It's currently not an easy game to come at without having played it.
 

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Brandon2k

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There is a bit of contradiction in this remark.

But I think the main issue here is that you are putting way too much blame on the referees and not on other factors of the modern game.

Let's take drop goals as an example. The reason we see less drop goals, is because players don't practice it as much as in the past, and some players don't want to take the risk of attempting the drop goal when there is a possibility to score tries. But with that said, in South Africa, the drop goal is still a very good weapon, and it's still seen a lot. Just this past weekend, during the warm-ups for the rainbow cup, the Cheetahs fullback made a drop goal from his own half. The referee had no influence whatsoever in him taking the chance.
I know this is slightly deviating from the original thread but the objective of any game is to win and this means usually by scoring more 'points' than your opponent. It seems though that scoring tries has become the be all and end all of rugby union and previously where an attack was looking likely not to succeed there was always the fall back of a neat little drop goal to come away with some points. The pressure now though is to run in those tries to maximise the advantage of the bonus point. And as a consequence we are seeing more and more penalties conceded down to the sheer determination to get the ball over the line. And like it or not it appears some teams are happy to go looking for penalty after penalty to enable this.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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I know this is slightly deviating from the original thread but the objective of any game is to win and this means usually by scoring more 'points' than your opponent. It seems though that scoring tries has become the be all and end all of rugby union and previously where an attack was looking likely not to succeed there was always the fall back of a neat little drop goal to come away with some points. The pressure now though is to run in those tries to maximise the advantage of the bonus point. And as a consequence we are seeing more and more penalties conceded down to the sheer determination to get the ball over the line. And like it or not it appears some teams are happy to go looking for penalty after penalty to enable this.
I like more tries though. I like a few flowing game which usually means the ref chatting more rather than just blowing how whistle more.

I’m not sure what type of rugby you want to watch but I think it does around 30 years ago.
 

TRF_heineken

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I know this is slightly deviating from the original thread but the objective of any game is to win and this means usually by scoring more 'points' than your opponent. It seems though that scoring tries has become the be all and end all of rugby union and previously where an attack was looking likely not to succeed there was always the fall back of a neat little drop goal to come away with some points. The pressure now though is to run in those tries to maximise the advantage of the bonus point. And as a consequence we are seeing more and more penalties conceded down to the sheer determination to get the ball over the line. And like it or not it appears some teams are happy to go looking for penalty after penalty to enable this.
But where is the referee to blame for this??????
 

TRF_heineken

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As mentioned in my post; it's a slight deviation (given that the thread had now included reference to the rules of the game and player attitudes.
Oh, so you are giving up on the whole idea of "Everything that is bad in rugby is the referee's fault"?

Can I close this thread then?
 

Brandon2k

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Oh, so you are giving up on the whole idea of "Everything that is bad in rugby is the referee's fault"?

Can I close this thread then?
You use quotation Mark's in your post. Have you a reference where the quote came from so I can look it up in it's full context?
 

Kiwiwomble

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You use quotation Mark's in your post. Have you a reference where the quote came from so I can look it up in it's full context?
....if it was actually a quote...he would have used the "quote" function like ve just done to you
Oh, so you are giving up on the whole idea of "Everything that is bad in rugby is the referee's fault"?

Can I close this thread then?
i think the question has been asked and answered....
 
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