Ring fence premiership for 3 years.

Discussion in 'Premiership Rugby / Premiership Cup' started by scotty507, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. KerryRed

    KerryRed Junior Member

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    As a Munster fan who would watch a lot of games in the PRO14, I do miss the old format a little, especially with Leinster in the other conference. Miss the battle between us, Leinster, Ulster, Ospreys, Scarlets & Glasgow at the top of the table. All fighting for four spots. Two home quarters for grabs plus bragging rights. With the likes of Cardiff, Edinburgh & Connacht sometimes causing upsets up there. In Connacht case actually winning it a few years back.

    It was very very competitive. It’s s little bit more dull now. Leinster are running away with there conference with probably the two teams who would be most likely to challenge them, ourselfs & Glasgow, fighting out amongst ourselfs in the other conference.

    I think the big thing that’s happened with the expansion of the SA sides, isn’t necessarily the introduction of conferences or even the quality which they brought, let’s face it hasn’t been great. But the extra money in regards TV rights. As we are some bit behind the Premiership and especially the Top14 in that regard.

    I think the conferences though will be short term. Hopefully. We are looking to expand up to 16 teams, which seems to be the magic number apparently for numbers. If/When that happens, I say it will be moved back to a single league. With 15 games or 18 games including derbies, home & away. Better everyone plays once IMO, as it would be fairer. Could have a seperate competition for derbies, league counting doubly, plus a PRO 14 Cup, for younger fringe players during internationals and to make up for the lost games.

    Regardless, the point of this almighty speil, conferences are a bit of a means to an end. We’ve adopted them as really no other system would work logistically. They’ve destroyed Super Rugby. Reality is the Premiership is quite lucky to have divisions. Allows smaller clubs to grow more naturally. Borders went bust a number of years back because they couldn’t keep up with the Jones’s. I’d only be delighted if one day the PRO14 gets the opportunity for a second tier. Too many regions across Scotland, Wales, Italy without representation. That can’t naturally grow.

    The problem from what I can see from the outside looking in with the Premiership at the moment is gross breach of the wage cap. Causing clubs to be in serious trouble financially. And now there sh*tting it a bit, causing short term thinking. Until the RFU get that in control and the clubs into a healthy position, they’ll continue to be problems, maybe a lot larger ones down the road.
     
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  3. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Vote to kick out Wasps and bring in Cov!
     
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  4. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice Senior Member

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    Coventry is not a sensible option now that wasps have located to Coventry. The wasps games are highly attended and trying to rebrand a Coventry team won’t really work.
     
  5. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    Have multiple money trees sprouted recently? If promotion was contingent on a sustainable business plan as is often suggested, how many of the sides you mention would qualify?

    - London Irish sound like a financial basket case. To be fair, you could say the same of plenty of GP teams, but at least they all have grounds to play at.

    - Yorkshire Carnegie are slip sliding their way down the pyramid as a result of ties with Leeds Met weakening.

    - Doncaster. A well run club who are wary of ruining their club by overreaching. Made it clear that they wouldn't accept promotion if they had won the last set of play-offs in 2017.

    Nottingham - Sold Ireland Avenue, downsized from Meadow Lane. A player has recently bemoaned low wages in the media. Perrenial mid table respectability, have never looked like making a bid for the upper eschelons of The Championship.

    Ealing - The latest side who think that they can buy their way to the land of milk and honey. I'm not sure if Vallis Way could ever be developed into a GP stadium, but IIRC they had a ground share lined up at some point. $64,000 what happens when 81+ year old Mike Gooley's involvement ends?

    Jersey - Getting back on track having been forced to sell their ground to fund their largesse of a few years ago. No doubt plenty of people in blazers would be keen to see them added, but can an island of 100k people really sustain a level one team?

    Bedford - Another well run club who are pretty much always there abouts, albeit never quite there. I believe that they are fighting NIMBYs in order to be able to develop Goldington Road and take the next step sustainably in the absence of a major benefactor.

    Cornish Pirates - I know you didn't mention them, but as a team with ambitions of level one rugby they deserve a mention. Any hopes are contingent upon the "Stadium For Cornwall" getting built, something that has been in the pipeline for more than ten years and been at the centre of many broken promises. Their President Dicky Evans has thrown significant money at the team over the years, but seems unwilling or unable to take the club to the next level. The club are just about to launch a Crowd Funder campaign - not something that smacks of 20 years of investment having created a business capable of sustaining GP rugby. On the plus side, Cornwall is a rugby county and attendances were strong before a p***ing contest saw the club shoot themselves in the foot and move from Camborne back to the Mennaye in Penzance. I imagine that Exeter, Bath and Bristol would fight this tooth and nail as it would mean Pirates needing to claim all of Cornwall and probably Plymouth as academy territory, with a knock on effect up the line.

    The London Welsh debacle seems to have introduced a bit of realism to The Championship at long last, so the list of teams prepared to jump at the chance of promotion on the basis that it will sort out a struggling business is much shorter than it used to be. I appreciate that being part of a newly ringfenced setup would alleviate some fears, but you have to ask where the extra money will be coming from if the new boys aren't just going to be perrenial whipping boys.
     
  6. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Aren't we just talking hypothetically?
    They're never gonna expand the prem to 16 clubs, it would die within a handful of seasons.
     
  7. curtbob7

    curtbob7 Senior Member

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    • Scrap Central contracts, force clubs/regions/franchises/provinces to pay the players themselves.
    • Expand Prem to 14 but don't ringfence, keep just one going up and down via a home and away play-off
    • Scrap the domestic Cup competitions and introduce proper rest weekends.
    • Prem clubs should be forced to play very young sides in any development comp that still exists.
    • With the new Prem being 14, introduce a similar system to France where the top 6 fight it out for the Championship..enabling clubs with major European involvements to prioritise easier and still have a good shot at winning the league, generating more revenue for the clubs in the process.
    • Enforce the Salary cap properly while also introducing an FFP system to that clubs cannot overspend a % of their revenue on wages/fees.
    • Get all clubs playing on the same playing surface (good quality Hybrids, Strengthened Grass)
    • NO to ringfencing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  8. FLOBALOB

    FLOBALOB Senior Member

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    Dicky Evans was on the radio yesterday in a positive frame of mind regarding Pirates future. He said the loose ends are being tied up presently and he thinks work will start on the new stadium in April and be completed by November. Lets hope so ,finally.
    He said they would be fighting the ring-fencing.
     
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  9. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Pirates, Jersey, London Irish, London, Scottish, London Welsh and ..... Doncaster to the pro 14, charge the Pro 14 about 14 million a season for the privilege.

    Bring up
    Doncaster
    Yorkshire

    and have the Prem 14

    EZ
     
  10. MarkyH

    MarkyH Senior Member

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    This! Should happen anyway. Wasps attendances are OK considering the amount of free ones you can get your hands on if you know someone at a school or council ;)
     
  11. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    London Welsh? Bit of a big ask for them even if you consider the rebranded London Welsh Amateur to be London Welsh! Funnily enough, a director of Cornish Pirates has mentioned the posibility of them playing in the Pro 14.
     
  12. higgik

    higgik Senior Member

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    Agree with all the London Celtic teams to Pro 14 as well as Pirates, not sure about Jersey and definitely not Donny.

    The Pro 14 would become Pro20 with addition of 2 more SA sides as well.

    Doncaster and Rotherham should look to create a South Yorkshire team for Premiership.
     
  13. KerryRed

    KerryRed Junior Member

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    Don’t think the union run PRO14 will be paying 14m a year for Tier2 English sides... Scotland can’t even afford a 3rd professional side.
     
  14. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    If sustainable business plans really mattered, Exeter would have no-one to play.
     
  15. curtbob7

    curtbob7 Senior Member

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    Yeah lets all get our owners Businesses' to heavily invest through inflated sponsor deals. I don't think any club is self-sustainable now im afraid. Exeter are wrongfully viewed as angels of Rugby finance in my eyes. Without Tony Rowe and his Sponsorship through SW Comms, they would be in the same boat as everyone else.

    I think its fair to say the only way forward for chasing clubs at the moment, looking at Exeter and Sarries and their success in slightly different ways, is to fiddle.
     
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  16. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    Do you know this for a fact or are you presenting your conjecture as fact? I've wondered the same thing myself, but never been able to find an answer as to whether it would be possible to replace SW Telecoms like for like if they ceased to exist or whether they are paying over the odds based on Tony Rowe's links, meaning that the club's finances aren't as rosy as painted out.
     
  17. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    That depends on how you define sustainable. I would hope that anyone calling for possession of one to be a condition of admission to the league has a pretty loose definition. It would be pretty hypocritical to expect new teams to tick a box that the current incumbents don't tick. The crux is, is a business that is reliant on a benefactor sustainable? To me, the answer depends on whether it is reasonable to assume that it would be possible to attract another benefactor is the existing one withdrew.
     
  18. curtbob7

    curtbob7 Senior Member

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    Ive trawled through Exeter's accounts several times before and Commercial income seems to be either not declared or heavily disguised. They're clever. But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to work out.
     
  19. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    Thanks. As I said, it has always been my suspicion.
     
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  20. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice Senior Member

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    Are you an accountant?
     
  21. TheConductor

    TheConductor Junior Member

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    Like the 6 nations should be.
     
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