Rugby Deaths and Head Injuries

[AmericanRugby]

Check out this article and let's have a dialogue. What do you think should or shouldn't happen in light of deaths and head injuries caused directly by rugby play?

http://www.americanrugbyworld.com/rugby-deaths-and-head-injuries/

 

[goodNumber10]

it would be good to know the participation levels between those sports compared...

Otherwise, not sure what to discuss. Head and Catastrophic injury awarness is on the up, which can only eb a good thing - rugby as world organisation has taken great steps to moderate the dangers of the game against the rewards of the game, and continues to do so.

So Education of players, Coaches, club staff is the right course of action...

 

[AmericanRugby]

However Rugby on a smaller scale has not taken proper precautions would you agree? I think this is more of a grassroots issue, not a top down. I can remember playing a match without any trainers/ paramedics on standby. That same match someone was admitted to the hospital. It was the club/ university level that overlooked the problem.

However, I also noted that we shouldn't take isolated incidents and blow them up to something they aren't. These things are unfortunate but we have to expect them.

 

[Amiga500]

However Rugby on a smaller scale has not taken proper precautions would you agree? I can remember playing a match without any trainers/ paramedics on standby. That same match someone was admitted to the hospital. It was the club/ university level that overlooked the problem.

No.

Everything appears clear and obvious in hindsight. Its an argument often constructed by lawyers to appear oh so wise after the event.


If you require all clubs to have fully trained paramedics on standby for any training sessions or games, and that added expense would cause said club to become bankrupt, meaning there are no training sessions/games, then is it still the right thing to do?

There is risk in all walks of life, having your alarm clock go off can be a shock to your internal system. But you make a personal decision to have a clock anyway as the risk is outweighed by the importance function, or you don't know of the risk and continue regardless.

The players all make a personal decision to play/train. Its their own personal responsibility to know the risks involved. Delegating responsibility is not the answer. If the players are uncomfortable with there being no first aiders/paramedics present, then they either seek a solution with the club (such as half club /half player payment of paramedics, or players get courses part subsidized by club for instance), or they don't play/train.

 

[goodNumber10]

However Rugby on a smaller scale has not taken proper precautions would you agree? I think this is more of a grassroots issue, not a top down. I can remember playing a match without any trainers/ paramedics on standby. That same match someone was admitted to the hospital. It was the club/ university level that overlooked the problem.

However, I also noted that we shouldn't take isolated incidents and blow them up to something they aren't. These things are unfortunate but we have to expect them.

yes and no.

I think the issue at grass roots is one of resources, not every club has the money to have paramedics on standby at a game (though i'm surprised a university didn't), and rely on good emergency services - so again the important part is education of participants in dealing with potentially catastrophic injuries at the grass roots level whislt they await help.

Awarness filters down, certainly i've seen a lot of it a the grass roots level where people have taken more and more responsibility for players welfare. I've seen first division rugby in contries like Belgium where teams have no match day physio due to cost.

 

[ncurd]

Aye my father broke his collar bone playing at school level and (purely accidentally) broke someone else's leg at club amateur level. In another sporting incident (Cricket) he split his tongue three-ways in all instances it would of been great had medical personnel been available on scene to deal with incidents. The reality however is due to the level they were played at the games would of never gone ahead as they would of never been able to afford to have the personnel available had they occurred.

Moves like that would just remove the lowest rungs of the amateur game to the detriment to all who play and enjoy it.

 

[Mumbles119]

Over the years playing rugby, I have broken various bones and had other injuries too, such as; collarbone, tibia, shoulder, ribs, fingers, foot, and nose three times! Our amateur club would not be able to afford for trainers/paramedics to be at every game. I agree with the above comments, no matter the injury, it has been the club support, advice, and awareness educated via coaching that has helped me be the one responsible for managing myself and how I recover from an injury.

For me this is part of rugby, strength to be responsible for self and others. The culture of the game would be affected if we provided too many safety blankets and entitlements.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Accept that it happens occasionally - then either continue or stop.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Accept that it happens occasionally - then either continue or stop.

That's rather an oversimplification. Accept it happens occasionally, ensure that sensible, achievable measures are in place to deal with such incidents as effectively as possible, then either continue or stop.

I don't disagree that there is a trickle down effect, but in the case of the RFU (given the resources available to them), I think it's insufficient to simply look after the top level and assume that everything will fall into place further down the pyramid. Maybe things have improved, but two shameful incidents stick in my mind, one four years ago (National 2 South), one two (County Championship). Both involved a player sustaining what was clear to me from the sideline was a concussion. In both cases he received attention from medical personnel (at least one doctor was appointed for both games) before playing of for the rest of the match (and for that matter, playing the next week). Symptoms exhibited after the match (photo-sensitivity, headache and in one instance vomiting) demonstrated beyond any kind of doubt that it was indeed a concussion. Either the medical staff weren't suitably trained to identify the signs of concussion, didn't realise the risk in allowing the player to play on or weren't sufficiently empowered to prevent him from playing on. Incidents like this could easily be avoided with a bit of eduction.

 

[goodNumber10]

That's rather an oversimplification. Accept it happens occasionally, ensure that sensible, achievable measures are in place to deal with such incidents as effectively as possible, then either continue or stop.

I don't disagree that there is a trickle down effect, but in the case of the RFU (given the resources available to them), I think it's insufficient to simply look after the top level and assume that everything will fall into place further down the pyramid. Maybe things have improved, but two shameful incidents stick in my mind, one four years ago (National 2 South), one two (County Championship). Both involved a player sustaining what was clear to me from the sideline was a concussion. In both cases he received attention from medical personnel (at least one doctor was appointed for both games) before playing of for the rest of the match (and for that matter, playing the next week). Symptoms exhibited after the match (photo-sensitivity, headache and in one instance vomiting) demonstrated beyond any kind of doubt that it was indeed a concussion. Either the medical staff weren't suitably trained to identify the signs of concussion, didn't realise the risk in allowing the player to play on or weren't sufficiently empowered to prevent him from playing on. Incidents like this could easily be avoided with a bit of eduction.

the concussion protocols have been in place for a while, but it's only really picked up momentum in the last 12-16 months afaict, perhaps driven by the NFL court cases, but there is certainly far more awareness education going on and the trickle down effect is having a big big impact both with management and reporting.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm talking about as an individual.

 

[RedruthRFC]

the concussion protocols have been in place for a while, but it's only really picked up momentum in the last 12-16 months afaict, perhaps driven by the NFL court cases, but there is certainly far more awareness education going on and the trickle down effect is having a big big impact both with management and reporting.

I know that they have at the top level and now appear to be getting taken seriously at international level now at least. My point is, are there a toned down set for semi-pro rugby and are they getting followed? The impacts and instances of concussion at this level aren't a million miles away, but the players aren't getting anywhere near the level of protection. I believe that a doctor is required to be in attendance by league rules and all teams travel with at least one "physio", so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to get them properly trained and empowered to take medical decisions out of coaching staff and players' (who are hardly in the right condition to make an informed decision) hands.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm talking about as an individual.

Any individual who doesn't go through this thought process is naive. I was just making the point that that it is easier for the individual to decide to continue if a pro-active attitude towards making realistic improvements to player care is taken by the game's administrators.

 

[goodNumber10]

I know that they have at the top level and now appear to be getting taken seriously at international level now at least. My point is, are there a toned down set for semi-pro rugby and are they getting followed? The impacts and instances of concussion at this level aren't a million miles away, but the players aren't getting anywhere near the level of protection. I believe that a doctor is required to be in attendance by league rules and all teams travel with at least one "physio", so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to get them properly trained and empowered to take medical decisions out of coaching staff and players' (who are hardly in the right condition to make an informed decision) hands.

that was my point about trickle down effect. I think you'll be surprised by how much the top tier influences things lower down the leagues like coaches and medical awareness - certainly here in France.

Best practice at a lot of clubs is certainly impacted on by the elite divisions.

 

[RedruthRFC]

As I've said already, I accept that there is a trickle down effect, but dispute that it is the quickest or most effective way for wealthy unions to safeguard semi-professional players.