Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[Thingimubob]

Yeah there's no way he could play anywhere in the backs, he simply does not have the ball skills. He could only really play backrow. He's got time to make the World Cup, there's a lot to pick up in the 1 year or so, but I would imagine he's already watching games and learning about union.

From the various articles I've read about his switch, Bath and England's aim is to mold him into a centre. They've done it with every recent big name league convert so far, bar Ashton I think. Who knows if it it'll work, Burgess is a hell of a league player and a hell of an athlete. Wouldn't be surprised to see him slot in quickly, whatever position he plays

 

[Zed]

From the various articles I've read about his switch, Bath and England's aim is to mold him into a centre. They've done it with every recent big name league convert so far, bar Ashton I think. Who knows if it it'll work, Burgess is a hell of a league player and a hell of an athlete. Wouldn't be surprised to see him slot in quickly, whatever position he plays

Most of the players coming over from League are backs and can already pass & kick, plus they already have that understanding of what lines to run, how to make use of overlaps, when to throw miss passes etc etc so it's easy for them to adapt to playing as a back in union. But for a league forward to come into union and play as a back.. I don't think that's been done (SBW has played as a back & forward). The only way I can see it working is if he is so good with the ball in hand, making the gain line, making half breaks and sucking in defenders that his various failings are inconsequential. Like Lomu for instance, couldn't really kick or pass. His defence was sometimes suspect, but he more than made up for it with his attacking prowess.

 

[Zed]

I can't really find much footage of him running in full flight or involved in passing, so it's hard to see how fast he is or how is passing and awareness is.

 

[Thingimubob]

Most of the players coming over from League are backs and can already pass & kick, plus they already have that understanding of what lines to run, how to make use of overlaps, when to throw miss passes etc etc so it's easy for them to adapt to playing as a back in union. But for a league forward to come into union and play as a back.. I don't think that's been done (SBW has played as a back & forward). The only way I can see it working is if he is so good with the ball in hand, making the gain line, making half breaks and sucking in defenders that his various failings are inconsequential. Like Lomu for instance, couldn't really kick or pass. His defence was sometimes suspect, but he more than made up for it with his attacking prowess.

Very true, that said, wasn't Andy Farrell a forward in League? Wasn't all that much cop when played union at fly half and centre. That said, he was at the end of his playing days, so probably a bit harsh.

On a side note, anyone ever visit some of the rugby league forums? I like to pop over to totalrl.com and have a cheeky lurk every time a controversial cross code story pops up. I'm actually quite a big fan of league, but bloody hell some of the fans don't half have massive chips on their shoulders when it comes to rugby union! Most of the posters seem pretty tidy about this sort of stuff, and the mods are good at weeding out and getting rid of the trolls of both codes, but there's still a lot of facepalm worthy posts... I always get the impression that a fair few of the die hard fans believe that the RFU are the centre of the Union universe, and that their main aim is to ruin things for the world of rugby league.
I remember getting quite a few laughs from reading the thread about the threat of Sam Tomkins moving when he played that one game for the BaaBaas.

The vast majority of rugby league fans that I've met are awesome, just like their preferred sport, but then you get a fair few like this:
http://www.leaguefreak.com/sam-burgess-has-stabbed-the-south-sydney-rabbitohs-in-the-back-6671/

That said, Wales' very own Western Fail is just as bad, probably worse, when it comes to useless rugby journalism...

 

[Zed]

Very true, that said, wasn't Andy Farrell a forward in League? Wasn't all that much cop when played union at fly half and centre. That said, he was at the end of his playing days, so probably a bit harsh.

On a side note, anyone ever visit some of the rugby league forums? I like to pop over to totalrl.com and have a cheeky lurk every time a controversial cross code story pops up. I'm actually quite a big fan of league, but bloody hell some of the fans don't half have massive chips on their shoulders when it comes to rugby union! Most of the posters seem pretty tidy about this sort of stuff, and the mods are good at weeding out and getting rid of the trolls of both codes, but there's still a lot of facepalm worthy posts... I always get the impression that a fair few of the die hard fans believe that the RFU are the centre of the Union universe, and that their main aim is to ruin things for the world of rugby league.
I remember getting quite a few laughs from reading the thread about the threat of Sam Tomkins moving when he played that one game for the BaaBaas.

The vast majority of rugby league fans that I've met are awesome, just like their preferred sport, but then you get a fair few like this:
http://www.leaguefreak.com/sam-burgess-has-stabbed-the-south-sydney-rabbitohs-in-the-back-6671/

That said, Wales' very own Western Fail is just as bad, probably worse, when it comes to useless rugby journalism...

Ha ha yeah they can't be happy about losing players. I used to play union on saturdays & league on sundays, but got too hard, so still follow it a fair bit. Re Farrell - he was a 2nd rower, but also played standoff (6) for a few years, so had the skills to play in the backs.

One thing I will say about Burgess, he looks immensely powerful. A clip on youtube showed him scoring a try with 3 guys on him, he literally dragged them over the line. He will be hard to stop. But his problem may be that the opposition will know that 90% of the time he's going to hit it up and double team him.

 

[nickdnz]

The vast majority of rugby league fans that I've met are awesome, just like their preferred sport, but then you get a fair few like this:
http://www.leaguefreak.com/sam-burgess-has-stabbed-the-south-sydney-rabbitohs-in-the-back-6671/

That was a fun read.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Journos seem to think that we have signed him as a 6, not a centre - but that the RFU see him as a centre.

 

[Big Ewis]

congrats England on the acquisition, well England Union I should say.....RIP English League, huge loss it seems...
if he is to play center, you've got some thick-a$s powerful specimens at midfield the way you like em to pick from now: Burrell, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, this guy Burgess...

 

[Maverick1987]

Anyone else think he might be better joining someone else other than bath ? They have lots of players at the minute for England it would be better if he joined quins or sale

 

[big ginger 8]

That was a fun read.

The best comment is the one about Farrell dumbing down England's rugby talent by teaching them lineouts, just wrong on so many levels.

 

[Saints1]

I'm absolutely gutted about this.

They don't come much better in the rugby league pack than Sam Burgess. He's a tough, tough guy. I am sorely sorry to see him leave the code. Bath must be offering him some money because the NRL cap is eye wateringly high as it is but you can never blame people for going with the money - and of course a chance to compete in the 2015r RUWC.

Bath (and England) fans are going to love him - just keep him out of that mess on the floor and let him run at people. That's where he's explosive, that's where he's devastating and that's where he will hurt teams. Good luck to him - I only wish the sport as a whole could offer more to keep him.

 

[Jack Reacher]

He'll get fast tracked in, probably play Ok for bath but will get embarrassingly shown up in test rugby, if hes in the centres. Its not as easy as it looks.
For NZ Smith and Nonu both took years to be the players they are and last year we moved the S15 player of the year and international runner up (Ben Smith) to centre and he was horrible! If Ben Smith can't do it why should a RL front rower!

 

[Jaguares]

In what position he will play? Centre inside/Second Five or Centre outside? I think he could play at loose forward

 

[Rhyer]

It'll be hard. I see him ousting Twelvetrees at 12. That's his best shot. It would relieve some pressure from Farrell to have someone that massive outside him to go over the advantage line. He's got some pretty freaky offloading abilities like SBW. I'm not saying he'll be a player like Nonu or JdV but he'll definitely be a good option at 12. Tuilagi has never really impressed me. He put in one fabulous performance against NZ but hasn't justified selection apart from that. He's just simply the best of what's there. He's young though I guess.

 

[SimonG]

Obviously delighted with this news. The game in the NH is a bit stale at the minute, and given that I predominantly only watch NH Rugby this injection of new blood is just what the doctor ordered. As much as I want Ireland to win, I want to see exciting Rugby and if that means a stronger England then so be it. Ireland will probably reach the QF at the WC anyway (we tend to bottle it and lose the head at that point) so I am hoping that Sam makes a speedy transition to Union and becomes a major factor for England. After a decade of rubbish, this could be the crucial piece in the jigsaw that sees England become a quality team again. All of a sudden England could be a threat in midfield, which in turn would provide a greater platform for the likes of Farrell, Ashton and co...and also make England genuine WC contenders.

 

[UilamOsa]

It's a loss to English league, but I don't think much of a gain for English union. He can't play in the forwards in Union because the rest of the backrow will be carrying him. It took Brad Thorn a few years of intense rugby to become settled in the game and that was after switching between 8 and 4. Lineouts? Scrums? Rucks? Mauls?

What's the point of him being in the backs? He'll just be a one dimensional option. Take the ball up and see if you can smash through the defense. He's got hit and miss hands. So, quite possibly a liability. SBW first few games for toulon he kept losing the ball in the rucks. Even during S15 SBW didn't completely look sure of himself with the union ground game. And that's almost an imperative now.

I'm trying to use other Rugby League forward converts as a gauge and whilst there's no doubting he's a terrific athlete, they've had the one thing he doesn't have - Time. If we're talking a Midfield League Back to Union Back conversion then Farrell Snr would've been in a better position to judge. Or not.

 

[Zed]

Yeah there's just so much skill and knowledge involved in playing 12 and Burgess just doesn't have it. It takes years for players to perfect the various skills needed to play 12. Can you imagine him involved in a first phase move - 12, wraps 13, 10 throws long cut out pass to 12 who catches it going flat out, straightens the line and throws a fast accurate & flat pass to fullback or wing? Players like Conrad Smith make moves like that look easy, but just that one simple move involves him doing 8 or 9 things perfectly. You can't teach a rugby league forward all those things in a year. There is just simply too much for him to learn in one year in order for him to become an accomplished centre, at least not at international level. My club had an NRL guy (Matt Fuller) come and play union for us, he was a hooker in League and played centre for us and although he started off playing 1st grade, he ended up only playing 3rd grade. His tackling was great, but his ball skills and understanding of what lines & angles to run was all wrong. He can only play back row really. Maybe 2nd row, but I know squat about that position so not sure if he's too heavy or not? I think England need to be careful with this guy and don't get all starry eyed over him, because I'm sure he will have some storming games for Bath, playing centre, but that is a completely different kettle of fish compared to facing the ABs, who are well used to facing 110/120kg backs...

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Sammy boy for No.8, because he is a tackling and running machine.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://media1.sky.apac.kitd.com/POD/1/CNfAGW.mp3

Mike Ford talking about Sam - quite a lot of info in here.

 

[Saints1]

It's a loss to English league

Debatable.

Loss to the national team but he's been playing in the NRL for 5 years now.