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Rugby Union
2021 British & Irish Lions Tour
South Africa director of rugby Rassie Erasmus to face misconduct hearing
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<blockquote data-quote="Cruz_del_Sur" data-source="post: 1052090" data-attributes="member: 55747"><p>First, it could be easily argued that if what he said is true then it wasn't him the one who brought the company into disrepute. If what he said is true it was the company who brought itself into disrepute. </p><p>What you are arguing is the equivalent of someone disreputing someone else by calling him a thief when he actually stole something. If you don't want people to call you a thief it is much more efficient to stop stealing as opposed to continue doing so and just expecting others not to call you out. </p><p></p><p>Second, this is not about what could have happened in a lot of companies. This is a very specific instance within a very specific organization. </p><p>I'm using your quote but others mentioned the same citing regulation 18. It's a rather vague and long regulation so I repeat, again, be specific. What part, <strong>exactly</strong>, did he break? Show me the exact quote of the regulation and quote the video as evidence of him breaking the rule. </p><p>You wont be able to, </p><p></p><p>When you accuse someone of something the process has to be clear and is generally quite straightforward. </p><p>- You claim he did A</p><p>- Rule XYZ says he cannot do A</p><p>- Here is the evidence of him doing A</p><p></p><p>I've yet to see the above. </p><p>I get why many do not like what he said, but this looks more like a witch hunt than anything else. </p><p></p><p>I don't give a flying turd who wins the tour. I really don't. I would be defending Gatland with the same energy had he done what RE did. What he addresses (albeit for the wrong reasons) is bigger, MUCH bigger than the tour. It's a tragedy that both coincide, but this is bigger. </p><p></p><p></p><p>So you cannot explain what he did wrong according to the rules. You hope someone who allegedly knows more than us does. </p><p>That is not good enough for me. </p><p></p><p>This is not rocket science. Either they cant explain it or they choose not to. Either way, that proves RE's point. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is basically one of RE's points!! </p><p>How can you question the powers that be if by just questioning them you are infringing a rule that they can enforce arbitrarily? That is PRECISELY a huge part of the problem. </p><p>"Use the propper channels" Why bother, if when used you don't get answers? </p><p></p><p>He is asking for clarity and transparency and he gets accused of violating god knows what. </p><p></p><p>And to be fair with his comments, he presented in a very smart way, probably anticipating something like this. </p><p>He didn't say "This ref is shite and WR couldn't organize a pissup at a brewery"</p><p>He said: "i don't understand this, this, that and that call, and these others look quite inconsistent when it comes to implementation. I would like some clarity, could someone help me out?"</p><p></p><p>He put himself in a position that, from the outside, in order to prove him wrong or at fault you would need to address the issues he presented. That's the genius of it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Goddamm right I am. Just look at the flags from the posters that are arguing against my points. There's a trend in there somewhere. </p><p></p><p>The bottom line for me is this and it revolves around the answer to this question: if we get sincere answers to the questions Rassie raised, do you think the sport will become better? </p><p>I really, really do. </p><p></p><p>I have no evidence whatsoever but this is what my gut feeling tells me. Let's set Welsh, Irish, Scottish, English and RSA aside to eliminate bias. I guarantee you the overwhelming majority of coaches, from tier 1 to the lowest division have similar questions and they are just as unhappy with the answers they get. </p><p>Again, he touched a nerve that goes deep. He is a world cup winning coach saying 'i don't understand the rules anymore'. Imagine how the average fan, player or coach feels. Form? Let's care about the form when we've received answers for very tangible issues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cruz_del_Sur, post: 1052090, member: 55747"] First, it could be easily argued that if what he said is true then it wasn't him the one who brought the company into disrepute. If what he said is true it was the company who brought itself into disrepute. What you are arguing is the equivalent of someone disreputing someone else by calling him a thief when he actually stole something. If you don't want people to call you a thief it is much more efficient to stop stealing as opposed to continue doing so and just expecting others not to call you out. Second, this is not about what could have happened in a lot of companies. This is a very specific instance within a very specific organization. I'm using your quote but others mentioned the same citing regulation 18. It's a rather vague and long regulation so I repeat, again, be specific. What part, [B]exactly[/B], did he break? Show me the exact quote of the regulation and quote the video as evidence of him breaking the rule. You wont be able to, When you accuse someone of something the process has to be clear and is generally quite straightforward. - You claim he did A - Rule XYZ says he cannot do A - Here is the evidence of him doing A I've yet to see the above. I get why many do not like what he said, but this looks more like a witch hunt than anything else. I don't give a flying turd who wins the tour. I really don't. I would be defending Gatland with the same energy had he done what RE did. What he addresses (albeit for the wrong reasons) is bigger, MUCH bigger than the tour. It's a tragedy that both coincide, but this is bigger. So you cannot explain what he did wrong according to the rules. You hope someone who allegedly knows more than us does. That is not good enough for me. This is not rocket science. Either they cant explain it or they choose not to. Either way, that proves RE's point. Which is basically one of RE's points!! How can you question the powers that be if by just questioning them you are infringing a rule that they can enforce arbitrarily? That is PRECISELY a huge part of the problem. "Use the propper channels" Why bother, if when used you don't get answers? He is asking for clarity and transparency and he gets accused of violating god knows what. And to be fair with his comments, he presented in a very smart way, probably anticipating something like this. He didn't say "This ref is shite and WR couldn't organize a pissup at a brewery" He said: "i don't understand this, this, that and that call, and these others look quite inconsistent when it comes to implementation. I would like some clarity, could someone help me out?" He put himself in a position that, from the outside, in order to prove him wrong or at fault you would need to address the issues he presented. That's the genius of it. Goddamm right I am. Just look at the flags from the posters that are arguing against my points. There's a trend in there somewhere. The bottom line for me is this and it revolves around the answer to this question: if we get sincere answers to the questions Rassie raised, do you think the sport will become better? I really, really do. I have no evidence whatsoever but this is what my gut feeling tells me. Let's set Welsh, Irish, Scottish, English and RSA aside to eliminate bias. I guarantee you the overwhelming majority of coaches, from tier 1 to the lowest division have similar questions and they are just as unhappy with the answers they get. Again, he touched a nerve that goes deep. He is a world cup winning coach saying 'i don't understand the rules anymore'. Imagine how the average fan, player or coach feels. Form? Let's care about the form when we've received answers for very tangible issues. [/QUOTE]
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2021 British & Irish Lions Tour
South Africa director of rugby Rassie Erasmus to face misconduct hearing
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