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Telegraph Pacific Island Player Drain Article

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I think it mainly comes down to profile... i'd expect football, Tennis, F1 and the likes probably gets proofread/fact checked by the editors team more than say Rugby due to the amount of people who read it.
 
What a peice of utter drivel. I'm fed up in general about this whole birth/nationality thing anyway but this smacks to me of the stereotypical old English posh bloke and his "bloody foreigners" routine. then again this was in the Telegraph so that may have been the point

I don't care about if Rokodoguni was born in Fiji, he's part of the British army, that makes him more than qualified.
 
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... I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if a player is developed in one country (Australia, England, New Zealand, Wales etc) and then goes and plays for a country that they have a heritage connection with, couldn't that technically be considered more of a drain, than players that chose to play for the side that have developed them?

I don't really care who a player chooses to play for, if they have a choice of more than one nation, just so long as they only get to play for one.
 
lol I don't think they get one player in before shooting themselves in the foot.

How is Mako Vunipola an example of player drain? Sure his father played for Tonga but he has NEVER lived there. He went to secondary school in England and trained there it's hardly a surprise that he chooses to play nationally for them. I mean I could see his reasoning if he chose to play for Wales instead, since he lived there also but there wouldn't be much reasoning in playing for Tonga just because of his heritage. Vahaamahina was literally born in a French territory of course he plays for France, smh at this entire article.
 
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Canuck said:
lol I don't think they get one player in before shooting themselves in the foot.

How does Mako Vunipola an example of player drain? Sure his father played for Tonga but he has NEVER lived there. He went to secondary school in England and trained there it's hardly a surprise that he chooses to play nationally for them. I mean I could see his reasoning if he chose to play for Wales instead, since he lived there also but there wouldn't be much reasoning in playing for Tonga just because of his heritage. Vahaamahina was literally born in a French territory of course he plays for France, smh at this entire article.
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He's clearly been poached from NZ, which is by definition a Pacific Island* ;)

They missed some other obvious ones too such as:
Zac Guildford - once went on holiday to Rarotonga....


*Well technically it is composed of a number of Pacific Islands...
 
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ratsapprentice said:
Does anyone here follow any other sports closely enough to comment on their relative quality of journalism?
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I've closely followed League and Cycling since I was a kid. In general, neither sport is much better than what I've experienced in Union. William Fotheringham who comments on cycling, is, in my opinion a very good writer and gets his dates right, something the younger generation of journos fail to grasp, i.e., that old anoraks like me pick up on immediately brought up on Simpson and Merckx. Amazing that they get pictures and dates wrong so often.

But then I think of Stuart Barnes and Stephen Jones (especially) maybe I should think again. And it's a double whammy for Barnes when I think of commentaries on the box. Can't stand the Aussie commentators like Greg Martin or Phil Kearns. Much prefer Tony Johnson, Grant Nesbitt and Justin Marshall in NZ, and Hugh Bladon in SA. The Brits. I'm OK with Brian Moore because he slags everyone when they bomb; Will Greenwood's an excellent pundit IMO and appears to be a genuinely good guy. Jonathan Davies: wonderful player in both codes, but an awful commentator.
 
At least this guy backtracked on that dumb clickbait drivel.

An even more emotive issue is that of the talent drain from the Islands across the world. Particularly in the northern hemisphere, it is painted in black and white with terms such as poaching frequently thrown at New Zealand’s door when in truth there are several shades of grey involved. The vast majority of the All Blacks’ Polynesian and Melanesian contingent are New Zealand born and raised.

It is also hard to begrudge Vunipola or Tuilagi representing England considering they were educated there or dispute Fijian Semesa Rokoduguni’s right to wear the red rose given he fought for the country in Afghanistan.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...should-repay-debt-to-the-Pacific-Islands.html
 
Shaggy said:
... I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if a player is developed in one country (Australia, England, New Zealand, Wales etc) and then goes and plays for a country that they have a heritage connection with, couldn't that technically be considered more of a drain, than players that chose to play for the side that have developed them?

I don't really care who a player chooses to play for, if they have a choice of more than one nation, just so long as they only get to play for one.
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Well would you rather have a player turn out for his country of heritage, then a country he is eligible for on the 3yr residency rule.
 
Tautahi said:
Well would you rather have a player turn out for his country of heritage, then a country he is eligible for on the 3yr residency rule.
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I'd rather the player chooses the country they want to play for (providing they only get to pick one) ... not disputing a players right to choose, the rules are what they are.
 
I share the same view as you but the case with PI nations is the restrictions put on players that choose to turn out for us is unfair. It is easier for a player to play for a country that has a professional league without the threat of contracts been terminated if he turns out for his country of heritage, a recent case is Ben Tameifuna.
 
I haven't clicked on the article, but I do get slightly sad about seeing guys who could represent Tonga/Samoa/Fiji playing for others, because they could be fantastic sides, but aren't. The reason why is that they have an insufficient professional infrastructure, but the number of top players who have a choice and choose others (which is very much the norm) is a direct offshoot of that. How many guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa would pick the countries they lived in for a long time if it wasn't a flat out bad choice compared to their other possible choice? How much better would the Pacific 3 be if they could get players like that and provide them with real support?

Not saying that guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa don't have every right to play for the country they do, to feel whatever identity they feel and so on - nevermind guys like Kaino who've grown up only knowing one country. But I can totally understand how people wistfully think "What would it be like if it was different". I wonder that too.

As noted, it's not like the Pacific Islands do too bad out of this. New Zealand give a huge number of players to Samoa. England have already given Fiji the Matavesi brothers and trained up the latest Stanley for Samoa - plus maybe they'll get the next generation of Tuilagis.
 
Tautahi said:
I share the same view as you but the case with PI nations is the restrictions put on players that choose to turn out for us is unfair. It is easier for a player to play for a country that has a professional league without the threat of contracts been terminated if he turns out for his country of heritage, a recent case is Ben Tameifuna.
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I'm not really familiar with Tameifuna case, but I thought that he had decided that he wanted to try to make the All Blacks?

I was also just reading Tim Nanai-Williams has just declared his intention to play for Samoa, and that the Chiefs support his decision ... Big Ben plays for the same franchise, so it seems strange that they'll support on and not the other.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...1/Chiefs-Tim-Nanai-Williams-to-play-for-Samoa
 
Peat said:
I haven't clicked on the article, but I do get slightly sad about seeing guys who could represent Tonga/Samoa/Fiji playing for others, because they could be fantastic sides, but aren't. The reason why is that they have an insufficient professional infrastructure, but the number of top players who have a choice and choose others (which is very much the norm) is a direct offshoot of that. How many guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa would pick the countries they lived in for a long time if it wasn't a flat out bad choice compared to their other possible choice? How much better would the Pacific 3 be if they could get players like that and provide them with real support?

Not saying that guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa don't have every right to play for the country they do, to feel whatever identity they feel and so on - nevermind guys like Kaino who've grown up only knowing one country. But I can totally understand how people wistfully think "What would it be like if it was different". I wonder that too.

As noted, it's not like the Pacific Islands do too bad out of this. New Zealand give a huge number of players to Samoa. England have already given Fiji the Matavesi brothers and trained up the latest Stanley for Samoa - plus maybe they'll get the next generation of Tuilagis.
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That is sadly the reason lack of professionalism and honest management, with the recent Samoa problems cases like this is a huge let down for players who would potentially play for the PI nations. I applauded all those guys who are in there who clearly at a disadvantage but give it their all because the love of their country and game thank you for sacrificing a lot for your country.
 
Tautahi said:
That is sadly the reason lack of professionalism and honest management, with the recent Samoa problems cases like this is a huge let down for players who would potentially play for the PI nations. I applauded all those guys who are in there who clearly at a disadvantage but give it their all because the love of their country and game thank you for sacrificing a lot for your country.
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Yes, the corruption/transparency definitely needs to be sorted out, plus the percentage of the gate and TV fees ... I don't have the article at hand, but I was reading if Samoa got 20% of the revenue from the game with England, it would fund Samoan Rugby for two years

Oh, here it is http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/63407265/Samoa-rugby-problems-have-been-passed-down
 
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Shaggy said:
Yes, the corruption/transparency definitely needs to be sorted out, plus the percentage of the gate and TV fees ... I don't have the article at hand, but I was reading if Samoa got 20% of the revenue from the game with England, it would fund Samoan Rugby for two years

Oh, here it is http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/63407265/Samoa-rugby-problems-have-been-passed-down
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Is that an IRB thing, or the RFU not sharing revenue?

I may be looking at it through rose (hehe) tinted glasses, but I feel that the RFU make enough money that they could/would spare a cut of the revenue to help Samoa out.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Is that an IRB thing, or the RFU not sharing revenue?

I may be looking at it through rose (hehe) tinted glasses, but I feel that the RFU make enough money that they could/would spare a cut of the revenue to help Samoa out.
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TBH i would rather have it like it is because giving money to a union that will only look to fill their pockets first then that of the players needs to be sorted.
 

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