The Stormers Thread

[saulan]

Ah no. I've just read we've left Kitshoff and Malherbe home for the touring squad for Italy and Wales. Scrum was definitely one of our (surprise) weaknesses in this past weekend. Hopefully we can hold it together and fixed things in this department before the matches, otherwise we are potentially in for some penalty trouble. Felt we got off lightly in this regard against Edinburgh because the ref was forcing the attacking scrum to use the ball even when they were still going forwards and not calling penalties on collapses if the ball was available.

Also just spotted we have left out Dweba and Fourie? The other two I can get, but why these two? If anything they could do with some game time.

 

[unrated]

Ah no. I've just read we've left Kitshoff and Malherbe home for the touring squad for Italy and Wales. Scrum was definitely one of our (surprise) weaknesses in this past weekend. Hopefully we can hold it together and fixed things in this department before the matches, otherwise we are potentially in for some penalty trouble. Felt we got off lightly in this regard against Edinburgh because the ref was forcing the attacking scrum to use the ball even when they were still going forwards and not calling penalties on collapses if the ball was available.

Also just spotted we have left out Dweba and Fourie? The other two I can get, but why these two? If anything they could do with some game time.

Agreed does not make sense with Fourie and Dweba, sometimes I cant understand the logic of some coaches

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah I agree Dweba and Fourie could do with game time. We are sans Willemse and Jantjies as well for the next two tour games so the Welsh sides will be in with a shout.

I expect Dweba and Fourie are seen as Bok players so are by default rested for the Bok end of year tour. Feels a bit counterintuitive but I suppose if they have to work on a case by case system you'll have a lot of logistic headaches and I can just imabine Jake White howling in SARU's ear if the likes of Arendse or Moodie are retained while Fourie is available for the Stormers.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

To me it feels like the season is now entering a distinct 2nd phase. Probably that is due to our schedule where we are not only travelling but we are facing a much sterner roster of opposing teams.

R12 – Sunday, January 8
Glasgow Warriors v Stormers

R13 – Friday, January 27
Ulster v Stormers

R1 – Friday,February 3
Sharks v Stormers

R14 – Saturday, February 18
Bulls v Stormers

R15 – Saturday, March 4
Stormers v Sharks

R16 – Friday, March 24
Leinster v Stormers

R17 – Saturday, April 15
Stormers v Munster

R18 – Friday, April 21
Stormers v Benetton

8 log points (and a game in hand over a couple) ahead I can see us hosting a QF at least and at home we should be able to get into a SF, probably even a home semi and from there anything can happen. So I guess I was wrong feeling we fluked last season and are actually a ~6 on the log side (though if the wheels come off in the latter half we might well be).

We've not had the good run on the injury front we had last season but I feel it has been well managed. We aren't sending a full team to Europe for Glasgow and Ulster but I feel the drop off isn't significant. My expectation is 1 win, 1 narrow loss, same with our two games vs the Sharks. I expect us to take all our remaining home games, possibly the game vs the Bulls but I can't see us beating Leinster at home specifically because I can't see us sending anything other than a sacrificial lamb to Dublin.

I felt start of the season we need to be in a dominant position at this point and TBH if you offered me the log as is I'd have taken it. We had a poor tour in Wales and Leinster has been absolutely dominant but we are hitting form at the right time and fair play to Leinster for being the force it is- the rest of the teams can only learn from them.

My only gripe would be with the scheduling. Two games abroad, 1 back in SA and then back up North for a 1 off vs Leinster? Crazy! It would acyually be insane to send a full strength side there. We also saw them send a B side down last season- and that was for a proper tour. Crazy to think the top 2 sides over these two seasons han't actually really faced each other yet and probably won't (assuming we are sending a B team ourselves) unless we meet in a final. We really need a quality lock though. Looking at the Leinster roster a guy like Jason Jenkins is exactly what we need with Dawid Meihuizen's forced early retirement before even having his break out season.

 

[saulan]

Dobson: Stormers were 'blown away'

John Dobson made no excuses after the DHL Stormers were beaten by Exeter Chiefs in the Champions Cup quarter-finals, despite the absence of Deon Fourie and the tricky travel schedule to England.

www.sarugbymag.co.za

I'm happy with how Dobson is positioning this quarter final loss. Blown away by the opposition, not pitching up in the first 25 minutes and not doing enough on defense/stealing the ball. Also saying this may impact our performances and our ability to get home semi, but it's an incredibly important experience for the players for them to grow on. No excuses or blaming travel.

This is what I want to be seeing, both as a Stormers and Springbok supporter. A lot of these players are young. Get them used to playing in tight knockout games away from home and have them learn from the pain of losing.

Hopefully this galvanises the team for the last two home games in the URC and we can go far in the URC play-offs again.

 

[die_mole]

It's also the first year playing in URC and Europe. With the extended squad dipping into Currie Cup as well the staff will only get better at rotating the squad. The admins should also be better prepared for the logistics of the Cup next year as well.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm happy enough with the year we've had TBH. Ending third for me goes some way to dissuade me that last year's heroics was as huge a fluke as I thought. I'd have taken a 4th or even 5th log position if offered it start of the season. Top 8 in the HC I'd also have taken and it was touch and go or we could have had a home QF. If we can win our QF in the URC that'd be me happy and anything else is gravy. I will say that the experience and lessons learnt this year should help for the future but we need about 5 world class players more I think. We've done well enough without Gelant and due to injuries Zas and Moerat but you will always have injuries.

My dream would be the Bulls and Sharks ending 7th and 8th, somehow beating the top Irish sides away from home and then all SA games for us from there to a 2nd ***le in as many years.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Willie le Roux's name being bandied about again regarding possibly joining the Stormers.

I for one would be happy providing he wouldn't be on Cheslin Kolbe type money. At only year older than Blommetjies I'd prefer him even if I would still say Gelant is my first choice. Would sure up the back three to allow Willemse to focus on the 12 jersey.

15 not the only jersey that needs some attention though. We have 3 good hookers but with an asterisk next to each name. Broke Harris isn't getting any younger and Kitshoff is moving to Ulster of all places. I expect 2nd spot on the log to only get more hotly contested next year. At lock we have the same issue as hooker and center. A lot of good options but no world beaters.

Backrow, is Xaba still our 2nd choice fetcher in behind (the also aging) Fourie and if so where is he? We've seen having 3 ball carriers between 6 and 8 isn't helpful.

TBF, we've struggled so much more with injuries this year than last and actually have more log points but I expect our current injury load to be more along the lines of what one can expect particularly with the added load of HEC rugby in the mix. Hoping to start seeing those signings.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Amid RWC hype Stormers are setting up nicely for next season. With setting up nicely I of course mean we aren't losing half our squad as per usual but are actually getting in some personel and even though none will be making a world XV discussion I 'm just glad we aren't going backwards.

Obviously losing Kitshoff to a direct opponent in Ulster will hurt but signing up Lizo Gcoboka is not a huge drop. Very glad we managed to pick up a good scrumager even though I don't see him as a long term signing.

Gelant for me is huge as it frees up Willemse to go to 12 or just give us the ability to rotate thrughout the season.

Other than that picking Courtnall Skosan is a weird one much like picking up Juan de Jongh last year. More a Currie Cup pick up and if the worst happens we could stick him in on a wing I suppose. On top of signing Ben Loader from London Irish. I don't know the player but it feels a weird pick up.

Biggest positive in the off season though is the clubs coming on board and signing off on an equity deal which means we will actually be able to play in the URC next season which was touch and go.

 

[saulan]

Amid RWC hype Stormers are setting up nicely for next season. With setting up nicely I of course mean we aren't losing half our squad as per usual but are actually getting in some personel and even though none will be making a world XV discussion I 'm just glad we aren't going backwards.

Obviously losing Kitshoff to a direct opponent in Ulster will hurt but signing up Lizo Gcoboka is not a huge drop. Very glad we managed to pick up a good scrumager even though I don't see him as a long term signing.

Gelant for me is huge as it frees up Willemse to go to 12 or just give us the ability to rotate thrughout the season.

Other than that picking Courtnall Skosan is a weird one much like picking up Juan de Jongh last year. More a Currie Cup pick up and if the worst happens we could stick him in on a wing I suppose. On top of signing Ben Loader from London Irish. I don't know the player but it feels a weird pick up.

Biggest positive in the off season though is the clubs coming on board and signing off on an equity deal which means we will actually be able to play in the URC next season which was touch and go.

Yea, overall it's been net positive. I don't feel bad losing Kade, he hadn't done enough to pressure into the first team and Sacha is clearly the next in line for competing at flyhalf. Kitshoff is a massive loss as a stalwart but as you say, good replacement pick up for now.

Gelant back I think is massive and I think we are moving into a bit more of a squad view in our backline, with players being able to cover multiple positions. Also in general our centres were coming into good cohesion and performance last season, so looking good there.

I get what we are trying to do with the wing signings. Let's be serious, we are weakest on our wings, and we have had problems there when one or two got injured last season. Hopefully Loader is decent (also have less exposure to him) and Skosan is fine(?).

Very noticeable that signings started coming in only after the equity deal was approved. Hopefully now we can start getting some proper commercial decisions from a professional club and start to move away from this archaic local club based system that has hamstrung the union with its pathetic politics.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, I suppose with Zas looking injury prone we need to shore up the wings rather than play centers et al out of position. Loader's highlights make me excited. Thinking with all of Libbok, Gelant and Willemse manipulating the space he should do well with us.

I'm thinking we are looking decent- I'm not naming players I think shouldn't play any higher than CC level or who I'm unsure of:

1 Gqoboka / Harris
2 Dweba / Kotze / Venter / Ntubeni / (Fourie)
3 Malherbe / Fouche
4 Moerat / Van Heerden
5 Orie / we have a ton of players who could fill in here mind but they are all hybrid locks IMO. Perfect for URc but against the likes of Munster and the Sharks I'd prefer someone more oldschool TBH
6 Fourie / Xaba
7 Dayimani / (Pokomela) / again with the hybrid locks of which we have a ton of journeymen
8 Roos / Pokomela / (Dayimani)
9 De Wet / Jantjies / I'm excited about Khan but is he too young still?
10 Libbok / Mngomezulu / Du Plessis
12 Willemse / Du Plessis / (Mngomezulu)
13 Nel / Hartzenberg maybe, wish we could sign Henco van Wyk from the Lions
14/11 Loader / Zas / Davids / Senatla / Skosan
15 Gelant / (Willemse) / (Mngomezulu) / Blommetjies

In all honestly, with me not rating DDA and Kriel and prefering Willemse at 12 and Gelant at 15 I feel our starting XV are a stronger backline than what the Bokke put into the field vs Scotland on the weekend.

 

[saulan]

I really hope Hartzenberg develops a bit more this year. Yes he is fast and can be skillful, but he lacks a lot on positioning defense. Wow I completely forgot about Senatla. Hopefully he can get back into the swing of things this year and can avoid injury. If he is fit and firing I think he may be in ahead of Zas and is above David's in the pecking order.

Blommetjies hasn't felt like the best acquisition so far either, but works in terms of squad rotation player and does have a similar style for us. It just hasn't clicked as much.

Forward pack looks fine, but we start looking thinner with some injuries across the board, hopefully we have some decent juniors also coming through to provide additional coverage.

Khan is 19, he can play. Moodie is playing Springboks at 20 and Jantjies Must've been playing for us when he was 19/20.

In general, we look good as a first team, we look thinner and in danger when we start getting injuries through.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

If Hartzenberg could get some time at 13 against the "gimme" sides to ease in.. but then again, you want him tested. He would be in behind Nel but Nel is getting on. I can't imagine we could lure Moodie because we simply don't have the Bulls' money but Henco van Wyk... Please make it happen!

13 is my biggest concern for the Stormers. I'd even take Jesse Kriel. 13 and then another big lock. It hurts doubly losing our best to the other URC sides. Now we are not only without them but directly facing the likes of Jenkins, Kleyn and Snyman.

Moerat, Van Heerden and Orie are fine. So is Nel at 13. The issue is ideally you'd want them as quality back up rather than 1st choice starters with a drop off behind them should they be unavailable or you simply need to rest them somewhere during a long season.

 

[saulan]

If Hartzenberg could get some time at 13 against the "gimme" sides to ease in.. but then again, you want him tested. He would be in behind Nel but Nel is getting on. I can't imagine we could lure Moodie because we simply don't have the Bulls' money but Henco van Wyk... Please make it happen!

13 is my biggest concern for the Stormers. I'd even take Jesse Kriel. 13 and then another big lock. It hurts doubly losing our best to the other URC sides. Now we are not only without them but directly facing the likes of Jenkins, Kleyn and Snyman.

Moerat, Van Heerden and Orie are fine. So is Nel at 13. The issue is ideally you'd want them as quality back up rather than 1st choice starters with a drop off behind them should they be unavailable or you simply need to rest them somewhere during a long season.

Last paragraph is a bit harsh, Orie is still a Springbok and has been performing decently, while Moerat has been good and is young, with leadership potential too. Likewise Van Heerden has been a great signing. But agree that one more signing would be good… or you know, bring through a really strong junior player. Surely someone decent is coming through the channels. Wasn't the SA U20 captain a lock from WP? (Maybe it was a prop and I am thinking of the U18s).

I really like the idea of Henco Van Wyk. If we got him that would be massive. But is he even looking to move? But agreed that I think our biggest position of development is centre.

 

[mdaclarke]

Yeah, I suppose with Zas looking injury prone we need to shore up the wings rather than play centers et al out of position. Loader's highlights make me excited. Thinking with all of Libbok, Gelant and Willemse manipulating the space he should do well with us.

I'm thinking we are looking decent- I'm not naming players I think shouldn't play any higher than CC level or who I'm unsure of:

1 Gqoboka / Harris
2 Dweba / Kotze / Venter / Ntubeni / (Fourie)
3 Malherbe / Fouche
4 Moerat / Van Heerden
5 Orie / we have a ton of players who could fill in here mind but they are all hybrid locks IMO. Perfect for URc but against the likes of Munster and the Sharks I'd prefer someone more oldschool TBH
6 Fourie / Xaba
7 Dayimani / (Pokomela) / again with the hybrid locks of which we have a ton of journeymen
8 Roos / Pokomela / (Dayimani)
9 De Wet / Jantjies / I'm excited about Khan but is he too young still?
10 Libbok / Mngomezulu / Du Plessis
12 Willemse / Du Plessis / (Mngomezulu)
13 Nel / Hartzenberg maybe, wish we could sign Henco van Wyk from the Lions
14/11 Loader / Zas / Davids / Senatla / Skosan
15 Gelant / (Willemse) / (Mngomezulu) / Blommetjies

In all honestly, with me not rating DDA and Kriel and prefering Willemse at 12 and Gelant at 15 I feel our starting XV are a stronger backline than what the Bokke put into the field vs Scotland on the weekend.

I thought Orie was going to a French club?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I thought Orie was going to a French club?

I see he is moving to Perpignan. I somehow missed that. Not the biggest loss tbh but maybe I am underrating the guy. TBF his last few games for us he was among the top performers.

We have huge depth ITO journeymen locks though. My hope is that we can get in a talisman lock long term sometime in the near future.

 

[saulan]

I see he is moving to Perpignan. I somehow missed that. Not the biggest loss tbh but maybe I am underrating the guy. TBF his last few games for us he was among the top performers.

We have huge depth ITO journeymen locks though. My hope is that we can get in a talisman lock long term sometime in the near future.

Oof, I also missed this. Okay now we are thinner in locks, having also lost Ernst Van Rhyn to Sale. Again, hopefully there is someone good coming through the junior ranks, and given the taps have only just opened for our signings, we are able to pick someone up over the course of the World Cup

 

[saulan]

Ok now we've also signed Sti Sithole from the Lions. Feel like we are fully bolstered in that department now.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

1 Gqoboka / Sithole / Harris
2 Dweba / Kotze / Venter / Ntubeni / (Fourie)
3 Malherbe / Fouche
4 Moerat / Van Heerden
5 ... Porter /... Smith /... Theunissen
6 Fourie / Xaba
7 Dayimani / (Pokomela) /
8 Roos / Pokomela / (Dayimani)
9 De Wet / Jantjies / Khan
10 Libbok / Mngomezulu / JL Du Plessis
12 Willemse / D Du Plessis / (Mngomezulu)
13 Nel / Hartzenberg
14/11 Loader / Zas / Davids / Senatla / Skosan
15 Gelant / (Willemse) / (Mngomezulu) / Blommetjies

Need a good lineout operator or two. Our lineout was the biggest issue alongside goal kicking or we'd sit with two ***les.

The CtStadium turf has been replaced so hopefully we won't see the pitch in the shape it was end of last season. Our scrum was totally nullified by that and that is another factor that lost us the final against Munster. Another thing was that hand in the ruck at the end where the ref didn't see and called a knock on and game over with us on their try line and with all momentum but that's water under the bridge.

 

[saulan]

1 Gqoboka / Sithole / Harris
2 Dweba / Kotze / Venter / Ntubeni / (Fourie)
3 Malherbe / Fouche
4 Moerat / Van Heerden
5 ... Porter /... Smith /... Theunissen
6 Fourie / Xaba
7 Dayimani / (Pokomela) /
8 Roos / Pokomela / (Dayimani)
9 De Wet / Jantjies / Khan
10 Libbok / Mngomezulu / JL Du Plessis
12 Willemse / D Du Plessis / (Mngomezulu)
13 Nel / Hartzenberg
14/11 Loader / Zas / Davids / Senatla / Skosan
15 Gelant / (Willemse) / (Mngomezulu) / Blommetjies

Need a good lineout operator or two. Our lineout was the biggest issue alongside goal kicking or we'd sit with two ***les.

The CtStadium turf has been replaced so hopefully we won't see the pitch in the shape it was end of last season. Our scrum was totally nullified by that and that is another factor that lost us the final against Munster. Another thing was that hand in the ruck at the end where the ref didn't see and called a knock on and game over with us on their try line and with all momentum but that's water under the bridge.

So on that note of lineout operator, we've made a lock signing. Hendre Stassen. Bit of an interesting one. Coming off a 4 year doping ban, but was a junior bok and at 25 still has quite a bit of playing time in him. Previously Bulls and then Stade Francais. Pretty similar frame to Moerat at 2m and 120kg.