Thoughts on a promotion/relegation split league?

[die_mole]

Then why has the ARU had to buyout the western force and there were similar discussions with brumbies.

I don't doubt Australia has the talent to support 5 teams, I doubt that there is interest among the Australian public to support 5 teams.

 

[ReddFelon]

Then why has the ARU had to buyout the western force and there were similar discussions with brumbies.

I don't doubt Australia has the talent to support 5 teams, I doubt that there is interest among the Australian public to support 5 teams.

The Force were hit particularly hard by the fraudulent actions of Fire Power International. They cost the club millions of dollars, that same group caused the downfall of the Sydney Kings basketball franchise and the sale of the South Sydney RFLC to Russel Crowe. As far as finances The Force gaining a $1.4 million a year sponsorship and the plan to sell shares to fans (currently sitting at $4.6 million worth of offers) has secured their financial stability. The Brumbies have had similar experiences with acquiring sponsors. The only club having genuine difficulty maintaining public support is Melbourne due to the dominance of the AFL, even so it's privately owned.

 

[Makos]

The Development West league is a really good idea as well ReddFelon.

Reading all the ideas I still think the best solution is 4 teams from NZ, SA & Aus and drop the expansion experiment of Japan and Argentina - but its also the least likely to actually happen because the outcome is decided by TV executives who have no interest in the long term well being of the sport.

I think culling an NZ franchise is completely out off the question. The NZRU would simply not allow that either for a number of reason.

1. They're all very good sides
2.NZ player retention, we need the franchise to keep players in New Zealand and stopping the overseas exodus
3.Just who in the world would you cut? There's no viable option, the provinces/cities would be up in arms.

Creating another franchise is probably the best option here in the Hawkes Bay region combined with the Bay of Plenty and Gisborne.

How has SARU got 6 teams? With all due respect, they can barely field 2-3 competitive teams. They are stretched beyond belief with their large number of quality players playing in Europe.

 

[adam31]

The Development West league is a really good idea as well ReddFelon.



I think culling an NZ franchise is completely out off the question. The NZRU would simply not allow that either for a number of reason.

1. They're all very good sides
2.NZ player retention, we need the franchise to keep players in New Zealand and stopping the overseas exodus
3.Just who in the world would you cut? There's no viable option, the provinces/cities would be up in arms.

Creating another franchise is probably the best option here in the Hawkes Bay region combined with the Bay of Plenty and Gisborne.

How has SARU got 6 teams? With all due respect, they can barely field 2-3 competitive teams. They are stretched beyond belief with their large number of quality players playing in Europe.

The kiwis all need to stay, they are helping to keep this competition afloat. Yes how does SARU have six teams????????, the Lions/Kings debacle of promotion/relegation is how SupeRugby found it's way into this mess to begin with. From my understanding, you had to keep them both to keep SARU in this agreement. Then expansion needed to occur to get an even number of teams. I don't doubt Argentina deserves their team, but the SunWolves are embarrassing. A team to North America would be more competitive, but then the travel issues are out of this world with a team in North America. A Fiji-Samoan team may be a better idea.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Perth has a population half the size of Wales (1.8 million). Melbourne has a population bigger than Wales (4.2 million). Just because a market is tough to crack you don't give up on it if you can help it. Having a team in your city is also likely to greatly increase the chance of a kid giving the sport a go and in 15 years time strengthening the national player pool.

If theOz sides want to be more competitive they should look to places like Georgia and Argentina to find good talent at low prices to bolster squad depth. That to me is a far more sensible first step when compared to binning a potential market of 6 million.

On promotion & relegation I can only see it working if the second division is heavily subsidised financially, the winner of the second division got a crack at the playoffs and each participating country with more than one club was guaranteed one team in the top flight. And all of that is too messy.

 

[Radsy]

I sincerely think that Australia and South Africa need to take the drastic measure of restricting their players from their international sides if they leave Super Rugby. Australia`s cap exemption, and the proposed South African one, should be thrown away in favour of the NZRU model. Have to try it for a few years at the least. Bring the big names back home, watch the attendance and revenues increase.

 

[die_mole]

Perth has a population half the size of Wales (1.8 million). Melbourne has a population bigger than Wales (4.2 million). Just because a market is tough to crack you don't give up on it if you can help it. Having a team in your city is also likely to greatly increase the chance of a kid giving the sport a go and in 15 years time strengthening the national player pool.

If theOz sides want to be more competitive they should look to places like Georgia and Argentina to find good talent at low prices to bolster squad depth. That to me is a far more sensible first step when compared to binning a potential market of 6 million.

On promotion & relegation I can only see it working if the second division is heavily subsidised financially, the winner of the second division got a crack at the playoffs and each participating country with more than one club was guaranteed one team in the top flight. And all of that is too messy.

Like people are going to believe that change happens over time.

 

[FNS]

I sincerely think that Australia and South Africa need to take the drastic measure of restricting their players from their international sides if they leave Super Rugby. Australia`s cap exemption, and the proposed South African one, should be thrown away in favour of the NZRU model. Have to try it for a few years at the least. Bring the big names back home, watch the attendance and revenues increase.

They will leave regardless. Too much money abroad.

 

[Radsy]

They will leave regardless. Too much money abroad.

I guess you speak from experience with the Jaguares and Pumas. I can`t blame the players at all, but this is becoming an issue of survival.

 

[die_mole]

I guess you speak from experience with the Jaguares and Pumas. I can`t blame the players at all, but this is becoming an issue of survival.

New Zealand players leave as well... it's just that they have so much depth they don't really miss guys.

 

[ajwffc]

I have seen reports online (fox sports, nzherald tvnz) that 2 or 3 teams will be cut from the tournament with Austrail and South Africa loosing at least one each, with New Zealand not loosing any and they make no mention of the Sunwolfs or Jaguars.

 

[Makos]

New Zealand players leave as well... it's just that they have so much depth they don't really miss guys.

We don't want to believe in that, I would rather see us try keep world class players on our shores than just believing our own BS about having so much depth.

Guys like Puitau and Cruden are no doubt going to be sorely missed, I think back to when Hayman left as well..

- - - Updated - - -

I have seen reports online (fox sports, nzherald tvnz) that 2 or 3 teams will be cut from the tournament with Austrail and South Africa loosing at least one each, with New Zealand not loosing any and they make no mention of the Sunwolfs or Jaguars.

Jags will join SA and Sunwolves will join Aussie.

Super 15 3 conferences

 

[Radsy]

New Zealand players leave as well... it's just that they have so much depth they don't really miss guys.

For sure. Not at the crisis levels seen in SA and AUS though. Generally speaking, NZ loses guys who are close to over-the-hill, or depth players. It's getting worse though, certainly.

- - - Updated - - -

Jags will join SA and Sunwolves will join Aussie.

Super 15 3 conferences

Yep. Latest reports have the Rebels, Kings, and Cheetahs getting the axe.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I personally think contraction is stupid, expansion is never easy and the punters expected too much from new teams the first few years. What they should have done is up the number of imports available to play on each team to make weaker teams stronger during the first few years. They also should have held an expansion draft whereby the expansion teams get to draft a couple of players from every other team to even out their sides.

Also should have reworked the conference system to three conferences, 1 African, 1 Australian, 1 NZ/Arg.

African:

Lions
Cheetahs
Stormers
Bulls
Sharks
Kings

Australian:

Brumbies
Waratahs
Reds
Force
Rebels
Sunwolves

NZ:

Crusaders
Hurricanes
Highlanders
Blues
Chiefs
Jaguares

Teams play a home and away against their own conference which guarantees everyone gets a local derby match. They then would play 3 random games against each other conference, 3 home and 3 away. Total of sixteen matches in the regular season, 8 home, 8 away. Top two from each conference make the playoffs with two wildcard teams with the best records also making the playoffs. Playoff seeding determined by overall league record.

The inter-conference match ups could be treated as a tour, e.g. SA Conference plays three home games against NZ conference, 3 away against Australia, etc... NZ plays away to SA home to Australia, Australia plays home to SA away NZ. It's a very simple system which would reduce travel to specific bricks during the schedule and would give teams a decent amount of time at home.

You've also got a good system to base further expansion off of, want a team in Hong Kong? They go to the Australia Conference, want a second Argentinian side? They play in NZ, etc.

 

[Wolliwolta]

I love the idea of a champions league type set up like in European football. The best teams from each domestic league automatically qualify. That way there is real incentive to do well in the domestic league and only the best sides qualify. Also each nation gets a chance to play by sending their top teams. The current set-up is pathetic. People are losing interest. I much prefer supporting my local club side anyway.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I just don't see Jaguares in a NZ conference. Viewership would collapse, very fast.

 

[Makos]

I just don't see Jaguares in a NZ conference. Viewership would collapse, very fast.

Why?

Good chance for you to improve. Likely to win a few home games frequently enough to keep viewers interested.

 

[Car]

Why?

Good chance for you to improve. Likely to win a few home games frequently enough to keep viewers interested.

http://www.therugbyforum.com/thread...in-Super-Rugby?p=838717&viewfull=1#post838717

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Short answer:

2 reasons:

-Short term results: sure, we'd improve in the long run, but realistically we'd probably lose all games home and away except vs blues. People will not turn on the tv (let alone at 4 am) to see how the Chiefs tear us a new one.
-Time zones: People might be willing to watch a couple of games at ridiculous hours, specially if it is a play off one, but expecting them to watch half of the games between 1 and 8 am is just unrealistic. Viewership would collapse.


I sincerely do not think there is such a big problem with the way things are right now. You can tweak a bit here and there, but lets face it, if you take into account markets, time zones and logistics something, somewhere at some point will have to give.

 

[sigesige00]

Super Rugby should be extended to 2-division/24-team structure. Every team plays 22 games (H&A), and possibly 2 promotion/relegation playoffs (H&A).
And there must be a rule that top teams of respective countries are not relegated from the 1st division. So Jaguares of Argentina and Sunwolves of Japan are not relegated. Panasonic wants to join Super Rugby by forming another team. If realised, 1 of 2 Japanese teams can be relegated.