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Todd Blackadder to leave the Crusaders after the 2016 season

Not a bad coach, but really probably should have won Super Rugby while in charge given the talent of his squad. I know there are extenuating circumstances, particularly 2011, but they never looked the sum of their parts under Blackadder IMO. Of course having a third of the AB's may have hampered him in some ways not really familiar enough with their campaigns to give a definitive judgement.
 
I've been wanting to ask this for ages, but never knew where to ask it...

Are the Crusaders fans happy with Blackadder or have their patience run out ?
 
Am I the only one thinking that this is a good thing? The Crusaders aren't the team they once were, and have been rather underwhelming the past few years.

2009 Table 4th - Semi-final
2010 Table 4th - Semi-final
2011 Table 3rd - Final
2012 Table 3rd - Semi-final
2013 Table 3rd - Semi final
2014 Table 2nd - Final
2015 Table 7th

They made two finals in his time, one of which they would have won but for a mistake at the very end by Joubert (to which he admitted)

Underwhelming?

Not a bad coach, but really probably should have won Super Rugby while in charge given the talent of his squad. I know there are extenuating circumstances, particularly 2011, but they never looked the sum of their parts under Blackadder IMO. Of course having a third of the AB's may have hampered him in some ways not really familiar enough with their campaigns to give a definitive judgement.

That may be an excuse in 2011 and 2015 (RWC years) but not in the other years. Other NZ teams coped with the demands of having limited playing time for AB's in the squad (Chiefs won it twice and Highlanders once under the same restrictions)
 
Am I the only one thinking that this is a good thing? The Crusaders aren't the team they once were, and have been rather underwhelming the past few years.

Well Toddy has/has had my full support, but he's said that new blood might be a good thing. Mark Hammett is back as the new Assistant coach for the Tasman Makos, and has a very Crusaders like way of doing things ... I know he wasn't popular at the Canes, but I think he'd go much better at the Crusaders; not advocating he should get the job, but he's another possibility.

Just glad Mauger went when he did.

A return for dingo Deans?

I think Deans himself has said a return to the Crusaders is unlikely; My provincial bias wanted me to see the Tasman Makos coaches Kieran Kane and Leon McDonald involved, but Kane is going to the Chiefs as an assistant coach, and Leon turned down an AC role already to become head coach of the Makos this coming season.

I'd say it's going to be someone that's coached the Canterbury NPC team, as some weren't happy that Blackadder, who was coaching the Makos, got it over Rob Penney who was very successful with Canterbury.

My main worry is player recruitment, regardless of who gets the gig, i'm a bit underwhelmed with this years roster, but time will tell.

I've been wanting to ask this for ages, but never knew where to ask it...

Are the Crusaders fans happy with Blackadder or have their patience run out ?

I can't speak for all of the fans, but I always had faith in Toddy ... I put the lack of a title down to the competition being a lot more even now, and the structural changes to super rugby, now that not everyone plays everyone once, hasn't helped either.

Daryl Gibson might be a good shot.

I was thinking that too, but I'm not sure how long he's contracted to the Waratahs for.

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I'd say it's going to be someone that's coached the Canterbury NPC team, as some weren't happy that Blackadder, who was coaching the Makos, got it over Rob Penney who was very successful with Canterbury


Scott "Breakdancer" Robertson?

His creds are pretty good.. Current Coach of Canterbury (2014 Semi-final, 2015 Premiers) and the NZ coach at the last U20 World Cup where the lads won the World Championship.
 
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2009 Table 4th - Semi-final
2010 Table 4th - Semi-final
2011 Table 3rd - Final
2012 Table 3rd - Semi-final
2013 Table 3rd - Semi final
2014 Table 2nd - Final
2015 Table 7th

They made two finals in his time, one of which they would have won but for a mistake at the very end by Joubert (to which he admitted)

Underwhelming?



That may be an excuse in 2011 and 2015 (RWC years) but not in the other years. Other NZ teams coped with the demands of having limited playing time for AB's in the squad (Chiefs won it twice and Highlanders once under the same restrictions)

I would argue Blackadder has been very underwhelming. In his squad he has had players who have won IRB player of the year 5/7 times since his reign. He has consistantly had the squad with the most All Blacks. He inherited a squad which had won 7 titles and made 9 finals in 13 years (the last of which was the year before he started). Yet he has won nothing going into his eighth season (the same length Deans was coach. He's at Ian Foster level of achievement...).

He was a coach who was made Crusaders coach after achieving basically nothing. In his entire credential as coach; you can not point to a single trophy. He was made coach after being a forwards coach for the the Edinburough Gunners, and then head coach for a season of the Makos in 2008 (in which he won 4 games, drew 1, lost 5). Yet because of an 'old boys club' mentality he was then made coach of the Crusaders - based on what he achieved as a Crusaders captain.

Even with all that I could overlook if I thought his coaching was sound. But he baffles me. Side to side rugby with little penetration has been on the menue for the last 7 seasons; with each year it getting worse and worse (and it's a reason why Matson should be no where near the head coach position IMO). He has had the players to still achieve in spite of it; but it doesn't help. His selections are baffling. How guys like Adam Whitelock, Nafi Tuitavake, Kieran Fonotia etc keep getting starts for the Crusaders simply blows my mind. You could not pick more run of the mill players to start for a Super Rugby franchise. Even his current selection of 1st 5/8ths have to leave everybody feeling pretty damn deflated. He could have probably lured any non-guarenteed starter to the Crusaders (the great 1st 5/8th factory). Marty McKenzie was the most inspired choice (not that he's bad; but he's probably the least exciting of the two brothers...).

My only concern now is that they will select another average as heck coach. Matson being one for my mind. Of Crusaders coaches, I wouldn't mind seeing Hammett get another crack (probably never right fit for the Hurricanes - but an underrated coach IMO) - or Gibson. I think Scott Robertson has also done alright with Canterbury. It's a real shame they let Rob Penny go.
 
I would argue Blackadder has been very underwhelming. In his squad he has had players who have won IRB player of the year 5/7 times since his reign. He has consistantly had the squad with the most All Blacks. He inherited a squad which had won 7 titles and made 9 finals in 13 years (the last of which was the year before he started). Yet he has won nothing going into his eighth season (the same length Deans was coach. He's at Ian Foster level of achievement...).

He was a coach who was made Crusaders coach after achieving basically nothing. In his entire credential as coach; you can not point to a single trophy. He was made coach after being a forwards coach for the the Edinburough Gunners, and then head coach for a season of the Makos in 2008 (in which he won 4 games, drew 1, lost 5). Yet because of an 'old boys club' mentality he was then made coach of the Crusaders - based on what he achieved as a Crusaders captain.

Even with all that I could overlook if I thought his coaching was sound. But he baffles me. Side to side rugby with little penetration has been on the menue for the last 7 seasons; with each year it getting worse and worse (and it's a reason why Matson should be no where near the head coach position IMO). He has had the players to still achieve in spite of it; but it doesn't help. His selections are baffling. How guys like Adam Whitelock, Nafi Tuitavake, Kieran Fonotia etc keep getting starts for the Crusaders simply blows my mind. You could not pick more run of the mill players to start for a Super Rugby franchise. Even his current selection of 1st 5/8ths have to leave everybody feeling pretty damn deflated. He could have probably lured any non-guarenteed starter to the Crusaders (the great 1st 5/8th factory). Marty McKenzie was the most inspired choice (not that he's bad; but he's probably the least exciting of the two brothers...).

My only concern now is that they will select another average as heck coach. Matson being one for my mind. Of Crusaders coaches, I wouldn't mind seeing Hammett get another crack (probably never right fit for the Hurricanes - but an underrated coach IMO) - or Gibson. I think Scott Robertson has also done alright with Canterbury. It's a real shame they let Rob Penny go.

Yes, the ultimate success is to win the title, but not finishing any lower than 4th (with the exception of last year), is still pretty impressive when you compare it to the success (or lack of), from other Super coaches, from other franchises. Ian Foster achieved 4th, 6th, 7th, 6th, 2nd, 11th, and 10th, so Blackadder missing the playoff's once, does not put him in that category.

You've really got to compare apples with apples, if you are going to compare with previous Crusaders coaches. In the Deans era (and prior), the other teams got one crack at the Crusaders during pool play, and now all of the New Zealand teams get two (most of which are more than capable of beating one another on any given day). Blackadder has had to deal with the Canterbury quakes, and still almost got the title that year.

Whilst you tout the player of the year statistic, most of those players have had limited playing time, due to injuries, sabbaticals etc, and the percentage of Crusaders in the All Blacks has probably dropped too, with the rise of the Chiefs and Hurricanes players.

The number of All Blacks probably doesn't have bearing that it once had anyway; Chris Boyd (who had a great season with the Canes), failed to deliver with an almost total All Black backline, in the game that counted, against the Highlanders, who at the time, had three All Blacks in the entire squad.

I agree (as I said previously), that the current Crusaders squad looks a little underwhelming. I don't think they've recruited as well as the did back in the Deans era.

I do rate Gibson as a coach, but if Blackadder's coaching tenure is deemed to be under performed, then should he not take some of that too, as part of the setup for a few years?
 
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Yes, the ultimate success is to win the title, but not finishing any lower than 4th (with the exception of last year), is still pretty impressive when you compare it to the success (or lack of), from other Super coaches, from other franchises. Ian Foster achieved 4th, 6th, 7th, 6th, 2nd, 11th, and 10th, so Blackadder missing the playoff's once, does not put him in that category.

You've really got to compare apples with apples, if you are going to compare with previous Crusaders coaches. In the Deans era (and prior), the other teams got one crack at the Crusaders during pool play, and now all of the New Zealand teams get two (most of which are more than capable of beating one another on any given day). Blackadder has had to deal with the Canterbury quakes, and still almost got the title that year.

Whilst you tout the player of the year statistic, most of those players have had limited playing time, due to injuries, sabbaticals etc, and the percentage of Crusaders in the All Blacks has probably dropped too, with the rise of the Chiefs and Hurricanes players.

The number of All Blacks probably doesn't have bearing that it once had anyway; Chris Boyd (who had a great season with the Canes), failed to deliver with an almost total All Black backline, in the game that counted, against the Highlanders, who at the time, had three All Blacks in the entire squad.

I agree (as I said previously), that the current Crusaders squad looks a little underwhelming. I don't think they've recruited as well as the did back in the Deans era.

I do rate Gibson as a coach, but if Blackadder's coaching tenure is deemed to be under performed, then should he not take some of that too, as part of the setup for a few years?

Took a while to reply to this sorry.

Not achieving a title in 8 years - does put him in the Ian Foster category. What Blackadder had to work with was a team with the best record, the best players, the best development structures. And yet he failed to improve with the team and went back in some instances. What Ian Foster had was a team with a poor record, average players, and a poor development steructure and he too stalled. In fact it could be argued that at least Ian Foster took the Chiefs to their best ever season at that point.

Not sure playing NZ team twice makes it more difficult to win.

I think the rise of the Chiefs and the Hurricanes players; is probably at the expense of the Crusaders players who just haven't developed. Which was part of my point.

Gibson probably does deserve a bit of criticism; howeer it is worth mentioning he then went on to have success with the Waratahs (whose backline has consistantly looked very well coached), so he's probably not a huge part of the problem (not that I'd want him to be the next Crusaders coach either).
 
2009 Table 4th - Semi-final
2010 Table 4th - Semi-final
2011 Table 3rd - Final
2012 Table 3rd - Semi-final
2013 Table 3rd - Semi final
2014 Table 2nd - Final
2015 Table 7th

had never looked up his record....now i think he's been a bit hard done by. That record to me says he's put together the right squad, at some point you have to look at the players rather than the coach and losing in the final or semi (baring the poor refing) is down to the players in my opinion

does anyone know how many of the current squad were there in 2008? Would be interesting to know how much development hes done and how much he did inherit

just for comparison, joseph since he took over with us


2011 - 8th
2012 - 9th
2013 - 14th
2014 - 6th
2015 - 4th - Champs though the playoffs,

if we're just looking at the table positions you'd take blackadder every day of the year, before people start saying the highlanders were underdogs etc, 2013 we had woodcock, nonu, smith. smith, hore and thorne
 
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2009 Table 4th - Semi-final
2010 Table 4th - Semi-final
2011 Table 3rd - Final
2012 Table 3rd - Semi-final
2013 Table 3rd - Semi final
2014 Table 2nd - Final
2015 Table 7th

had never looked up his record....now i think he's been a bit hard done by. That record to me says he's put together the right squad, at some point you have to look at the players rather than the coach and losing in the final or semi (baring the poor refing) is down to the players in my opinion

does anyone know how many of the current squad were there in 2008? Would be interesting to know how much development hes done and how much he did inherit

just for comparison, joseph since he took over with us


2011 - 8th
2012 - 9th
2013 - 14th
2014 - 6th
2015 - 4th - Champs though the playoffs,

if we're just looking at the table positions you'd take blackadder every day of the year, before people start saying the highlanders were underdogs etc, 2013 we had woodcock, nonu, smith. smith, hore and thorne

I don't particularly rate Joseph either tbh, but credit to him this year.

I couldn't give you an exact number; but running through players that were there in 2008: Wyatt Crockett, Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, Andy Ellis, Richie McCaw, Kieran Read, Daniel Carter.

I just disagree with him ever putting together the right squad. The closest he came in my mind was 2011, when the midfield looked good with Fruean/SBW - Maitland was the main option for the right wing (with Guildford not my favorite player but did a job on the left). Since then I just don't think their back-line selections have ever been anywhere near right.
 

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