Wales v Australia

[Jimbo]

I'd pitch it to him as, sign a 5 year contract with a clause that has a break after the WC next year. Then, if he wants to activate that clause a year later we can hypnotise him to see out the other 4 years.

Do you genuinely think WG could get the most out of this particular group of players, previously he had some pretty heavy weight backs and could play a simple effective crash ball strategy which would have success against a lot of teams, paired with very good defence and fitness, do Wales have those players/attributes now? It's also not easy to know how much SE contributed to that defence and if it can be replicated without him, the massive improvement in the French defence suggests he probably played a pretty big part, I don't watch a lot of the league but seems to me Wales need alternative strategies and Styles with the current crop.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Do you genuinely think WG could get the most out of this particular group of players, previously he had some pretty heavy weight backs and could play a simple effective crash ball strategy which would have success against a lot of teams, paired with very good defence and fitness, do Wales have those players/attributes now? It's also not easy to know how much SE contributed to that defence and if it can be replicated without him, the massive improvement in the French defence suggests he probably played a pretty big part, I don't watch a lot of the league but seems to me Wales need alternative strategies and Styles with the current crop.

Yeah I agree. I'm not really keen on Gatland coming back even on an interim basis. The post you quoted was me taking about Scott Robertson. He's clearly head and shoulders above the other candidates.

However, while I don't see the Gatland appointment as ideal, I'd take him on a short term basis over Pivac but I'd take anyone on here over Pivac to be honest so that's not saying much.

Gatland hasn't got Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins anymore but he'd get a lot more out of these players than Pivac did. At best he'd get us to a semi final but probably just a qtr final. Pivac wouldn't even get us out of the group.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just a small bit of misery to pile on here.

Wales are as close in world rankings points to Uruguay as they are to Ireland after the weekend. That's pretty dismal for a team that were unquestionably better than us coming out of the 2019 world cup. The unprecedented consistency Ireland have shown really provides a stark contrast to Wales' and Pivac's failures.

While I think he's great I don't exactly think Farrell has been revolutionary, all he has done has devised a gameplay that gives Ireland a good chance to win every game if they're clinical regardless of how much possession and territory they have - very Welsh in a way.

Wales, on the other hand, look like they don't know what they're supposed to do, like I don't think they do anything terribly and they have a lot of quality across the pitch but games just consistently pass them by and they lose. Its concerning and not really like anything I've ever seen, maybe England's bad years post 03 were similar but I can't remember well enough.

I don't think Gatland will return any trophies but he'll give you focus and fight which will stop the malaise at the very least. I don't think there's much point bringing Robertson in unless it's a long term gig. It looks like a bit of a waste of a World Cup cycle unfortunately but who knows, Wales have gone from dreadful to very strong between AIs and the 6 nations in the past.

 

[Derpus]

Just a small bit of misery to pile on here.

Wales are as close in world rankings points to Uruguay as they are to Ireland after the weekend. That's pretty dismal for a team that were unquestionably better than us coming out of the 2019 world cup. The unprecedented consistency Ireland have shown really provides a stark contrast to Wales' and Pivac's failures.

While I think he's great I don't exactly think Farrell has been revolutionary, all he has done has devised a gameplay that gives Ireland a good chance to win every game if they're clinical regardless of how much possession and territory they have - very Welsh in a way.

Wales, on the other hand, look like they don't know what they're supposed to do, like I don't think they do anything terribly and they have a lot of quality across the pitch but games just consistently pass them by and they lose. Its concerning and not really like anything I've ever seen, maybe England's bad years post 03 were similar but I can't remember well enough.

I don't think Gatland will return any trophies but he'll give you focus and fight which will stop the malaise at the very least. I don't think there's much point bringing Robertson in unless it's a long term gig. It looks like a bit of a waste of a World Cup cycle unfortunately but who knows, Wales have gone from dreadful to very strong between AIs and the 6 nations in the past.

Ireland are one serious Sexton injury away from being as bad as Wales, lets be honest.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland are one serious Sexton injury away from being as bad as Wales, lets be honest.

I don't think we lose a whole lot more games without Sexton, I'd say the third test v NZ is the only one this year that he definitely changed the result.

We play less entertaining and less cohesive rugby without him but still have the pack and strike runners to beat anyone - certainly remain a top 4 side.

 

[HamJan]

Ireland are one serious Sexton injury away from being as bad as Wales, lets be honest.

But Ireland have quality all over the field.

 

[Welsh Exile]

But Ireland have quality all over the field.

We have quality everywhere between 6-15. Can't compete with the Irish front 5 at the minute, though.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

We have quality everywhere between 6-15. Can't compete with the Irish front 5 at the minute, though.

Wales have some quality from 6-15, but honestly, in Ireland and Wales' presumed 1st choice sides I'd only give the head-to-heads to Wales at 6, 11, 14 and maybe 9.

6. Morgan > POM
7. JVDF > Tips
8. Doris > Faletau (this one's close and I have a huge amount of respect for Faletau and his career but on form it has to go to Doris IMO)
9. JGP and Williams very close.
10. Sexton > Anscombe
11. Adams > Lowe
12. Henshaw > Tompkins
13. Ringrose > North
14. LRZ > Earls/Hansen/JOB
15. Keenan > Williams

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wales have some quality from 6-15, but honestly, in Ireland and Wales' presumed 1st choice sides I'd only give the head-to-heads to Wales at 6, 11, 14 and maybe 9.

6. Morgan > POM
7. JVDF > Tips
8. Doris > Faletau (this one's close and I have a huge amount of respect for Faletau and his career but on form it has to go to Doris IMO)
9. JGP and Williams very close.
10. Sexton > Anscombe
11. Adams > Lowe
12. Henshaw > Tompkins
13. Ringrose > North
14. LRZ > Earls/Hansen/JOB
15. Keenan > Williams

Yeah, that's fair, though I might disagree with 1 or 2. That's not really the point though. Head to heads don't mean ****, it's a team game but you also have to factor in age and injuries and stuff like that. But also, and more importantly, the point was just that we have quality from 6-15 and I don't think you'd argue that the players that you list there are not competitive with their Irish counterparts.

Edit: Don't forget my man Biggar.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Controversial statement but if you put Tomos Williams behind a pack like Irelands then he'd be challenging Dupont and would be seen as a step above JGP

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Edit: Don't forget my man Biggar.

Yeah I did wonder whether Biggar or Anscombe would be 1st choice but I'd have Sexton over both so I just put Anscombe.

Controversial statement but if you put Tomos Williams behind a pack like Irelands then he'd be challenging Dupont and would be seen as a step above JGP

I rate Williams and won't disagree that he could be a step above JGP but challenging DuPont is about 5 bridges too far.

That's not because I don't rate Williams but DuPont is just many magnitudes above any other 9 in the world right now.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah I did wonder whether Biggar or Anscombe would be 1st choice but I'd have Sexton over both so I just put Anscombe.

I rate Williams and won't disagree that he could be a step above JGP but challenging DuPont is about 5 bridges too far.

That's not because I don't rate Williams but DuPont is just many magnitudes above any other 9 in the world right now.

Yeah, I'm not even sure I 100% believe that myself to be honest, Dupont is that good. He could be seen as one of the greatest players to play the game but one area he's already better than Dupont is his service but yeah, Dupont is a bit special isn't he. I'll semi retract my controversial statement. Lol.

With regards to Biggar, this is why I don't like head to heads. I think a fit sexton is better but he's 4 years older and I think you have to factor in those things with injuries and reliability. I also think Biggar gets a tough ride, defensively there is no better 10 imo and aspects of his game like under the high ball and game management, rugby IQ are world class in my humble opinion. What he lacks is pace, if he had that he'd be an all round world class 10 but I guess you could argue that's why Sexton is so good, never had that pace but still complete controls games and his all round game is surperb.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah, I'm not even sure I 100% believe that myself to be honest, Dupont is that good. He could be seen as one of the greatest players to play the game but one area he's already better than Dupont is his service but yeah, Dupont is a bit special isn't he. I'll semi retract my controversial statement. Lol.

With regards to Biggar, this is why I don't like head to heads. I think a fit sexton is better but he's 4 years older and I think you have to factor in those things with injuries and reliability. I also think Biggar gets a tough ride, defensively there is no better 10 imo and aspects of his game like under the high ball and game management, rugby IQ are world class in my humble opinion. What he lacks is pace, if he had that he'd be an all round world class 10 but I guess you could argue that's why Sexton is so good, never had that pace but still complete controls games and his all round game is surperb.

That's the type of thinking that loses Lions tours!

Understand what you're saying though and I think it applies to Lowe v Adams. Not a chance I take Adams for Ireland. Lowe's boot, tight carrying and ability to delay going to ground when isolated are vital to how we play, I think we missed him more than Sexton and as much as Henshaw this autumn despite him not being on their level.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That's the type of thinking that loses Lions tours!

Understand what you're saying though and I think it applies to Lowe v Adams. Not a chance I take Adams for Ireland. Lowe's boot, tight carrying and ability to delay going to ground when isolated are vital to how we play, I think we missed him more than Sexton and as much as Henshaw this autumn despite him not being on their level.

Lowe has a much superior hair game as well tbf.