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Why Jarryd Hayne has played for Fiji? If he's an Aussie...
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Why Jarryd Hayne has played for Fiji?
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InsaneAsylum
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That's a good question. Why did Hayne play 4 league games for Fiji in 2008?
bazwaz
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..his dad's a Fijian...worth watching those world cup matches he played in for Fiji ,,, Hayne was instrumental i.e awesome in the upset wins over France and Ireland back then...Fijians are just natural footballers if you look at players like Radadrada, Nadolo, Naholo, Kuridrani, Kerevi, Speight, Nayaravoro ,Nakaitaci = all game breakers....that's where Hayne gets a lot of his natural ability from I'd say...the Fijian Sevens team is a case in point and watch out for the Flying Fijian Rugby team in acouple of weeks against England and Wales...gunna be epic...I'm picking an upset...
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InsaneAsylum
First XV
No doubt he's a gun along with a lot of other Fijians, but I'm looking at it from a union perspective as I don't follow league at all and I think Marc is coming from the same angle - how did he represent 2 nations at test level?
Because rugby league has a joke eligibility system. Lots of players switch allegiances.
I'd argue the union system is no better. Just look at how many foreign born players are in every team.
The whole thing needs a proper shake up.
That's a different discussion.
I have no problem with foreign born players playing for other national teams - just so long as they are qualified as citizens of that country (for most that is five years minimum).
Grandparent rules or 3 year eligibility is indeed a joke.
Still not as bad as league in which you have a stream of players play for Tonga/Samoa because they are unwanted by NZ/Aus, and then switch when the opportunity arises. It's an attempt to make competitive teams in a game which really isn't all that global, but it still makes test League a farce.
Not being able to switch countries, outside of one wonky thing introduced to appease the Olympics which I don't think was ever used, is better.
bazwaz
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..yea have to agree with that being a funny comment about leagues eligibility system when rugby has the 3yr residency rule.. and it's Hayne's father that is Fijian - not his grandparent which weakens subsequent arguments about ineligibility...
..don't think he was setting any precedent though was he....back then he was only 20yr old and overlooked for the Oz RLWC team so why not...he's always been headstrong and if Australia said he was'n't good enough for their WC team then he would show them with Fiji..,no doubt he has some pride in his Fijian heritage as well and who are we to take a saw to his family tree....
..he would have been too young to displace some of the big names in the Kangaroo test team anyway ithink at that stage...no doubt about it though he made a real statement playing for Fiji at fullback - unfortunate that Fiji ended up meeting the world champions in the semi final and got knocked out....but a similar senario where people said he was'nt good enough to break into the NFL as well ...and look how that's working out..
..don't think he was setting any precedent though was he....back then he was only 20yr old and overlooked for the Oz RLWC team so why not...he's always been headstrong and if Australia said he was'n't good enough for their WC team then he would show them with Fiji..,no doubt he has some pride in his Fijian heritage as well and who are we to take a saw to his family tree....
..he would have been too young to displace some of the big names in the Kangaroo test team anyway ithink at that stage...no doubt about it though he made a real statement playing for Fiji at fullback - unfortunate that Fiji ended up meeting the world champions in the semi final and got knocked out....but a similar senario where people said he was'nt good enough to break into the NFL as well ...and look how that's working out..
Not really the point I was making though is it.
It is farcical that you can switch between representing 2 nations.
Plenty of stupid eligibility problems in Unions, but it is still not as much of a joke as the rules of player eligibility in league. Union has gotten close in recent times with Tim Nanai-Williams being allowed to swap from being locked to NZ, to being allowed to play for Samoa, and Armitage was probably even closer, but while those things are recent weird exceptions, in league it is very common place.
There was the Shingler situation here aswell. Picked for a Scotland youth side but was determined that didn't qualify as a major representative side so was allowed to play for Wales.
The best bet is when a player is picked for one nation at senior level then he cannot be picked for another regardless of how he qualifies for them. Simple. League seems to be "play for where you, or your family were born or any other country you may have been on holiday"
bazwaz
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..trying to find evidence to back up yr claim about league players but no luck so far or was that just a sweeping generalisation?
...might be more rugby players that have played for two nations than you think mate..i know the USA RWC team has a centre, Thretton Palamo that played for the Samoan U19 team -i will be watching him with interest.... ithink some of our NZU20s teams went on to play for other island teams as well..
Played rugby union for more than one national side[edit]
John Allan Scotland South Africa
Graeme Bachop New Zealand Japan
Stephen Bachop New Zealand Samoa
Abdelatif Benazzi Morocco France
Frano Botica New Zealand Croatia
Frank Bunce Samoa New Zealand
Daniel Carroll Australia USA
Des Connor Australia New Zealand
Matthew Cooper New Zealand Croatia
Diego Dominguez Argentina Italy
Jack Gage Ireland South Africa
Julian Gardner Australia Italy
Adrian Garvey Zimbabwe South Africa
Bill Hardcastle New Zealand Australia
Barry Holmes England Argentina
Shane Howarth New Zealand Wales
Alama Ieremia Samoa New Zealand
Evan Jessep New Zealand Australia
Michael Jones Western Samoa New Zealand
Jamie Joseph New Zealand Japan
Pat Lam Samoa New Zealand
James Marsh Scotland England
Frank Mellish England South Africa
Patricio Noriega Argentina Australia
Matthew Pini Australia Italy
Tom Richards Australia British LionsNote 2
Topo Rodriguez ArgentinaNote 3 AustraliaNote 4
Jamie Salmon New Zealand England
John Schuster Western Samoa New Zealand
Brian Smith Australia Ireland
Eddie Stapleton Australia New Zealand
Owen Stephens New Zealand Australia
Jan Christian Stewart Canada South Africa
Tiaan Strauss South Africa Australia
Ofisa Tonu'u Samoa New Zealand
Va'aiga Tuigamala New Zealand Samoa
...might be more rugby players that have played for two nations than you think mate..i know the USA RWC team has a centre, Thretton Palamo that played for the Samoan U19 team -i will be watching him with interest.... ithink some of our NZU20s teams went on to play for other island teams as well..
Played rugby union for more than one national side[edit]
John Allan Scotland South Africa
Graeme Bachop New Zealand Japan
Stephen Bachop New Zealand Samoa
Abdelatif Benazzi Morocco France
Frano Botica New Zealand Croatia
Frank Bunce Samoa New Zealand
Daniel Carroll Australia USA
Des Connor Australia New Zealand
Matthew Cooper New Zealand Croatia
Diego Dominguez Argentina Italy
Jack Gage Ireland South Africa
Julian Gardner Australia Italy
Adrian Garvey Zimbabwe South Africa
Bill Hardcastle New Zealand Australia
Barry Holmes England Argentina
Shane Howarth New Zealand Wales
Alama Ieremia Samoa New Zealand
Evan Jessep New Zealand Australia
Michael Jones Western Samoa New Zealand
Jamie Joseph New Zealand Japan
Pat Lam Samoa New Zealand
James Marsh Scotland England
Frank Mellish England South Africa
Patricio Noriega Argentina Australia
Matthew Pini Australia Italy
Tom Richards Australia British LionsNote 2
Topo Rodriguez ArgentinaNote 3 AustraliaNote 4
Jamie Salmon New Zealand England
John Schuster Western Samoa New Zealand
Brian Smith Australia Ireland
Eddie Stapleton Australia New Zealand
Owen Stephens New Zealand Australia
Jan Christian Stewart Canada South Africa
Tiaan Strauss South Africa Australia
Ofisa Tonu'u Samoa New Zealand
Va'aiga Tuigamala New Zealand Samoa
How many of those were in the amateur days, though?
Offered no helpful or new information.
1. No age grade rugby locks a team to a nation. I am referring to full test caps.
2. Your examples in the amature days, or early 2000s don't really add anything - as I am discussing current eligability laws. Current Rugby Union laws prohibit changing Nations - except with a new Olympics 7s loophole, which I agree should be closed, but had only effected 1 player.
3. There are many league examples, but rather than list every player - I will tell you the League laws which states:
3.3 A player who is eligible to play for more than one country shall be entitled to elect for which country he wishes to play. When a player plays a Senior International Match for a country, he is deemed to have elected to play for that country. Subject to Rule 3.5, once an election is made the player may not play Senior representative rugby league for any other country until the end of the next World Cup tournament, or the expiry of two years, whichever is earlier (“Election Periodâ€).
3.4 After the expiry of an Election Period, the player may elect to play for another country if he is eligible, but once he so elects (or is deemed to elect by playing in a Senior International Match) he may not play for another country until the expiry of another Election Period.
3.5 During an Election Period, a player may change from one country to another for which he is eligible pursuant to Rule 3.1, with the approval of the Federation (but he may only change once in each Election Period).
Being able to change Nations every 2 years is my view, is a joke. Also: similar to rugby it is only 3 years of residence in a nation to qualify.
Mcfadden
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I'm a little bit old school on this issue and I'd take an even harder stance. Although I'm sure there's ethical pitfalls or something that you could point out. Still, I also think you should be allowed to play for a country if you were born somewhere else. But the test for doing so should be very strict, in my opinion.
If you moved from Samoa to New Zealand before you were 18 years old, fine. Chances are you've come through New Zealand's rugby systems, lived your youth there and completed your high school education in NZ. You may not have been born there, but that immerses you pretty strong with NZ's culture and ways of living for you to now be considered a Kiwi. I don't think I'd support an artificial number of how long you've been somewhere. Although I can appreciate 5 years a bit more; it would certainly mean you'd have to be patient enough to stick around in one country, engage with it and continue your rugby form for a good deal of time.
I absolutely loath the idea of jetting off somewhere after having been trained and educated through another country's systems, make selection because that nation doesn't have any better talent on offer, and start playing under the guise of "right, I'm English now." No, you're not. Not in a rugby sense anyway. If your big claim to that nationality is working for a privatized rugby club and owning a flat down the road then forget it.
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I wouldn't feel comfortable telling a citizen - who can purchase property, vote in elections, serve on a jury be enlisted in our army, that they aren't Kiwi enough to play for the All Blacks. I think citizens should have equal rights - and I'd certainly extend that to rugby. If Joe Bloggs from Uganda moves here at 22, spends 5 years in NZ owning a home, having a family and wanting to play for the All Blacks - who am I to say he is less of a kiwi than myself?
Mcfadden
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I don't think it's a case of what legislation says you are. That would be great for almost any other occupation. But this is international sport, and we have to apply some context. I think the education you've undertaken (and perhaps there could be exceptions here), the rugby training academies, systems and the country where you've played age grade footy to hone your skills in is entirely relevant. You always learn of course. Learn to improve your game. But no more so than when you're at your most impressionable, the brains doing the most developing, and where you learn the most essential skills at under 18. That's my opinion though really, and I think whatever solution you came up with someone out there would have a problem with it.
