England 2024/25

[Geordie]

Not essential. We still have Burry, CCS, Pepper, Kenningham, Pearson to choose from.

I agree...Ben Curry starts without questions. Tom Willis at 8 leaving either another 7 or a 6. Underhills defence is world class so he could be see as vital. Hes played at the highest levels of intensity ...which im not sure Kenningham can reach. But maybe this is the tour where we get to see what some of the supporting cast can do.

Im not sure id take Pearson on the tour...i think theres others who are more consistent.

 

[Ddanno]

I agree...Ben Curry starts without questions. Tom Willis at 8 leaving either another 7 or a 6. Underhills defence is world class so he could be see as vital. Hes played at the highest levels of intensity ...which im not sure Kenningham can reach. But maybe this is the tour where we get to see what some of the supporting cast can do.

Im not sure id take Pearson on the tour...i think theres others who are more consistent.

I think Kenningham has earned a shot and this is one of the few chances he'll get to stake a claim. Tend to agree about Pearson.

I think CCS, Burry, Willis, with Kenningham on the bench has a nice balance to it. And not half bad considering who's unavailable. If only we had such riches in the midfield!

 

[Geordie]

I think Kenningham has earned a shot and this is one of the few chances he'll get to stake a claim. Tend to agree about Pearson.

I think CCS, Burry, Willis, with Kenningham on the bench has a nice balance to it. And not half bad considering who's unavailable. If only we had such riches in the midfield!

Yeah i think most would be surprised if that wasnt the back row starting the Tests,

As to the midfield...i cant help thinking theres a limited choice.

12 Dingwall - Think hes set in stone for the tests
Atkinson will hopefully start v the France XV and see how he copes

13 Slade / Beard / Ojomoh
Slade is still under central contract isnt he? So cant see him being left behind...then the other two are probably the best centers at the moment. How many has Ojomoh played at 12 and at 13 this season i wonder.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How many has Ojomoh played at 12 and at 13 this season i wonder.

4 starts at 12.
9 starts at 13.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No IFW for Chiefs this weekend, with Baxter saying he's not even back in full training yet

Just give him the summer off

 

[Geordie]

No IFW for Chiefs this weekend, with Baxter saying he's not even back in full training yet

Just give him the summer off

That would be the best thing...i really dont get the need to rush him back.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Pearson and Kenningham are both 26 in the Autumn. Good players - Kenningham especially has been in v good form - with a fair bit of time on their side, but similar age to Twindaloo and let’s be honest aren’t really bashing down the door threatening them or Earl or Chessum etc, all of whom should be around for a few years at least.

If we’re using this tour for ‘blooding’ I’d much rather see game time given to genuine next generation players like Pepper and CCS, potential future starters with longer time horizons. Pollock would’ve been in that category too if someone hadn’t had greater plans for him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Kenningham is putting his name up there, he's been really excellent this season both stats wise and just watching him play

Pearson massively off the boil though, shouldn't be in contention IMO

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ilione —-> Pearsoj

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One day Tigsman will learn how to do multiple "greater than" symbols

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Ilione —-> Pearsoj

I think Pearsoj has been brilliant, the best flanker around.

Pearson for saints has been average though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think Pearsoj has been brilliant, the best flanker around.

Pearson for saints has been average though.

Pearsoj was amazing for the polish team

 

[BPM]

Pearson and Kenningham are both 26 in the Autumn. Good players - Kenningham especially has been in v good form - with a fair bit of time on their side, but similar age to Twindaloo and let's be honest aren't really bashing down the door threatening them or Earl or Chessum etc, all of whom should be around for a few years at least.

If we're using this tour for 'blooding' I'd much rather see game time given to genuine next generation players like Pepper and CCS, potential future starters with longer time horizons. Pollock would've been in that category too if someone hadn't had greater plans for him.

26 is hardly ancient. Kenningham was late to break through and has had some very significant injuries which have limited his game time. He’s probably have been there or thereabouts for longer if he hadn’t spent so much time rehabbing.

I’ve said this before, but he reminds me of Mark Wilson. Teak tough, unflashy but consistently excellent. I could absolutely see him making the step up and looking like a 20 cap player on his debut.

 

[Ddanno]

26 is hardly ancient. Kenningham was late to break through and has had some very significant injuries which have limited his game time. He's probably have been there or thereabouts for longer if he hadn't spent so much time rehabbing.

I've said this before, but he reminds me of Mark Wilson. Teak tough, unflashy but consistently excellent. I could absolutely see him making the step up and looking like a 20 cap player on his debut.

Yep. If he gets a shot I'll be very surprised if he doesn't take it. The Wilson comparison is bang on imo

I think Earl's time is limited. Willis should be sewing up 8 quite soon and we have better 7s

 

[BPM]

I wouldn't dismiss Earl that easily. He's just a bit betwixt and between. There are better specialist 7s and 8s. However, his ability to slot in at 12 later in games has been a useful asset so I think he brings a lot to the 23.

His biggest challenger is Pollock who looks like he can do a lot of the same things but probably with better basics as a flanker. The question is whether he can maintain his breakthrough form.

The good thing is that we have quite a few different options that can be tweaked either in the game or on a horses for courses basis. I personally favour Curry x2 + Willis but having CCS, Chessum or Hill who can slot in at 6 and/or Earl/Pollock who offer a bit more dynamism gives us a lot of options.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I do wonder if England are having talks with sarries about Earl at 12. I’m not sure if he’s going to be better than any of our other 12s at the basics there (if you take th highlight reel stuff out the equation).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Earl jut needs the right balance around him
People quickly forget how world class he looked when you had a Lawes/Chessum at 6.

I do think Earl and Pollock will be key to Borthwick 6/2 bench split option

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

26 is hardly ancient. Kenningham was late to break through and has had some very significant injuries which have limited his game time. He's probably have been there or thereabouts for longer if he hadn't spent so much time rehabbing.

I've said this before, but he reminds me of Mark Wilson. Teak tough, unflashy but consistently excellent. I could absolutely see him making the step up and looking like a 20 cap player on his debut.

Not knocking him at all and he’s had a very good season. But given the ages / form of those ahead of him, I just don’t see where he fits into the England picture unless there’s a massive run of injuries.

So all I’m saying is that if SB is looking beyond established first choices with half an eye on eventual succession planning he may want to look at those whose careers will extend a few years past Currys, Earl, Willis etc.

Could he do well if given the chance? Possibly / probably. But it’s tough at the top and he may just be one of those unlucky ones.

Interview in the Times with Twindaloo the day, which they used as part advertorial saying how well they played together.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I do wonder if England are having talks with sarries about Earl at 12. I'm not sure if he's going to be better than any of our other 12s at the basics there (if you take th highlight reel stuff out the equation).

Would be amazed if they weren't. Even if he's 'just' moving there for 20 minutes or so at a time they'll not want him coming in totally cold.

And if he's 'no worse' than any other option then it would allow us to shoehorn another top back rower into match day squads.

But Tigs is quite right to say that much depends on the players around him (or anyone else). Personally I don't see 3 fundamentally open sides as the long term answer. Right now I'd probably be thinking Twindaloo + Willis, but there are any number of options and most teams would kill to have Earl or Underhill. Consistent fitness from Martin or the emergence of another lock throwing Chessum in the mix (he has to start somewhere) would be a further complication.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Earl still has a lot to give and I'd be surprised if he dropped off the radar that rapidly. He has a "have a go" mentality that quite a few players lack and has had moments where he stood out for getting the team going with individual efforts at times we were stalling. That sort of thing is hard to come by.

Personally, given we finally have a nice selection of flankers, I think we take advantage of it by not thinking of just a set of starters and bench options but instead start looking across an entire season, rotating the players to try to avoid too much workload and build a group where we can put together almost any combination and not suffer a drop off in performance.