England vs New Zealand - 15/11/2025

[BPM]

I have mixed feelings on the 23. However, I do think there’s a massive upside to what Borthwick is doing with the squad.

Chessum and Freeman are big losses but Coles and Roebuck are good replacements.

I think we have the ability to beat this NZ side and after a string of close losses for us, we really owe them.

 

[Welsh Exile]

50:50 game.

I’m going for England 3 NZ 68.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

50:50 game.

I'm going for England 3 NZ 68.

But that only adds up to 71, not 100

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mixed feelings on the team. I can’t see a victory though. I think they will smash through the 10/12 channel and once they make a break they will destroy our back 3.

Worried about that pack but hopefully I’m wrong. I’d love to say in SB I trust but he constantly makes obvious mistakes than most fans predict so I think he’s got some major issues with selecting the correct tactics and 23.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I can't see a victory though.

This is a ridiculous thing to say. You’re not Wales.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I agree that this is more or less a 50/50 but I think if either team are to prove thag wrong it'll be England. Have only seen the highlights and read reviews of the Scotland game but can't see England giving them as much scope to attack. Ireland finished with 20 minutes of totally headless rugby to throw away a decent winning opportunity, I also don't think England have that in them currently (didn't think I'd be writing that 12 months ago!).

What New Zealand do incredibly well and what still makes them a threat to anybody is almost always scoring ~25 points. Outgunning them is doable but not easy, however, I reckon England need to keep them in the low teens or less to win. I'd back them and South Africa currently to be the only teams currently capable of that (maybe France but they're hard to gauge right now, they definitely have the tools though).

On paper I'd back England at home but there's some relevant history that might give NZ the edge.

I'll go out on a limb and say England will confirm their place at the top table winning 22 - 16.

 

[Becca]

I’m not too sure about the team either.
I really wouldn’t have persevered with Dingwall though.
Glad Roebuck is back.

 

[OllyM97]

Mixed feelings on the team. I can't see a victory though. I think they will smash through the 10/12 channel and once they make a break they will destroy our back 3.

Worried about that pack but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd love to say in SB I trust but he constantly makes obvious mistakes than most fans predict so I think he's got some major issues with selecting the correct tactics and 23.

That’s absolute nonsense, sorry. We could lose narrowly, but we ain’t getting destroyed by that All Blacks side. If the ABs couldn’t beat Scotland by 30-40 points after being 17-0 up at HT against a team they’ve never lost against, there’s absolutely no chance they do it to us. This pathetic, loser-like fawning over the ABs every time we play them gets right on my nerves. The home nations put the All Blacks on this ridiculous pedestal and treat them like immortal gods every year and it’s just embarrassing. This is a team that lost in Argentina this year, conceded 36 points in one half in a record defeat to SA, and scraped narrow wins in 2 out of 3 test matches against a French C side. They would have lost to Scotland last week had the Scots had any sort of belief in themselves. We’re at home, we’ve won our last 9 matches and we’ve got a settled side - we should expect to win and it’s unacceptable if we don’t.

 

[Saintjay]

Mixed feelings on the team. I can't see a victory though. I think they will smash through the 10/12 channel and once they make a break they will destroy our back 3.

Worried about that pack but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd love to say in SB I trust but he constantly makes obvious mistakes than most fans predict so I think he's got some major issues with selecting the correct tactics and 23.

Pretty much my concern is the 10, 12 channel defence. Are full back vs pace.

There's going to be a lot of kicking.

 

[spartan32]

agree with much of what’s been said. Looks like SB is betting on the bench to save the day again, which is fine as long as the game isn’t already beyond reach by that point. Would have liked to see CCS start but I guess we need him to cover lock so that’s that (mad we don’t have enough depth in that position!) not convinced by the 6:2 split and would have lied to have seen 5:3 with Arundell on the bench. He’s the sort of player who can snatch a try to win a game in the last 10. Ford starting is clearly all about game control. Clearly SB doesn’t think Fin has it yet. Interesting he prefers Marcus on the bench though. Guess he brings a little more X factor?

Good to see Roebuck back, not convinced by Steward but little other options, OL deserves his start, Dingwall is lucky that there isn’t another option as his been distinctly average.

Finally agree about all this putting ABs on a pedestal BS! They aren’t some unbeatable force. Both Ireland and Scotland could have won their games and blew it. Argentina have turned them over and we’ve done several jobs on them. We are at HQ and should be looking to win.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

While these ABs are very definitely not pedestal material, they also shouldn’t be underestimated and are perfectly capable of changing momentum pretty quickly.

It will be disappointing if we don’t win but we’ll also have to be disciplined to do it.

 

[BPM]

That's absolute nonsense, sorry. We could lose narrowly, but we ain't getting destroyed by that All Blacks side. If the ABs couldn't beat Scotland by 30-40 points after being 17-0 up at HT against a team they've never lost against, there's absolutely no chance they do it to us. This pathetic, loser-like fawning over the ABs every time we play them gets right on my nerves. The home nations put the All Blacks on this ridiculous pedestal and treat them like immortal gods every year and it's just embarrassing. This is a team that lost in Argentina this year, conceded 36 points in one half in a record defeat to SA, and scraped narrow wins in 2 out of 3 test matches against a French C side. They would have lost to Scotland last week had the Scots had any sort of belief in themselves. We're at home, we've won our last 9 matches and we've got a settled side - we should expect to win and it's unacceptable if we don't.

I was with you until the last sentence …

I think we should go into the game with confidence and the belief that we can win, but the prospect of losing to a team that are (fairly) ranked higher than we are is clearly not ‘unacceptable’.

That’s as much of a ‘nonsense’ statement to the one you took issue with.

 

[OllyM97]

While these ABs are very definitely not pedestal material, they also shouldn't be underestimated and are perfectly capable of changing momentum pretty quickly.

It will be disappointing if we don't win but we'll also have to be disciplined to do it.

Nobody is underestimating the ABs, and despite what i said earlier, you still have to play to a very good standard to beat them. However, the difference this time is that we are definitely capable of beating them, this is not like years gone by when you played New Zealand and the main hope was to play well and maybe run them close. I remember playing the 2005 All Blacks at Twickenham that November and I think we lost by 4 points but they were so outrageously good back then that you weren’t massively gutted about losing, you were more pleased that we took it to them and made them sweat a bit. I’d be genuinely gutted if we lose on Saturday because i don’t think there’s a lot between these teams and with home advantage I think we need to be winning games like this to go to the next level.

 

[OllyM97]

I was with you until the last sentence …

I think we should go into the game with confidence and the belief that we can win, but the prospect of losing to a team that are (fairly) ranked higher than we are is clearly not 'unacceptable'.

That's as much of a 'nonsense' statement to the one you took issue with.

In isolation, a loss to the ABs isn’t unacceptable, but there’s a pattern in recent years of us arguably being the better team against the ABs for long periods in games but being unable to close it out and finish them off. Last year was the classic example, we lost all 3 tests against New Zealand despite being the better team in two of them. If we’ve really progressed as a team, like a lot of people think we have, then we need to start being clinical and ruthless when we are on top against teams like NZ and not let them off the hook. This game will be close so it’s a test of how much we’ve grown over the last 12 months.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

That's absolute nonsense, sorry. We could lose narrowly, but we ain't getting destroyed by that All Blacks side. If the ABs couldn't beat Scotland by 30-40 points after being 17-0 up at HT against a team they've never lost against, there's absolutely no chance they do it to us. This pathetic, loser-like fawning over the ABs every time we play them gets right on my nerves. The home nations put the All Blacks on this ridiculous pedestal and treat them like immortal gods every year and it's just embarrassing. This is a team that lost in Argentina this year, conceded 36 points in one half in a record defeat to SA, and scraped narrow wins in 2 out of 3 test matches against a French C side. They would have lost to Scotland last week had the Scots had any sort of belief in themselves. We're at home, we've won our last 9 matches and we've got a settled side - we should expect to win and it's unacceptable if we don't.

Umm that’s not what I said. Please re-read.

I said once they made a break they’d destroy our back three.

Very different from your interpretation, I’ll wait for the apology in the post shall I.

 

[NickBD]

Mixed feelings on the team. I can't see a victory though. I think they will smash through the 10/12 channel and once they make a break they will destroy our back 3.

Worried about that pack but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd love to say in SB I trust but he constantly makes obvious mistakes than most fans predict so I think he's got some major issues with selecting the correct tactics and 23.

SB could win the World Cup and England fans would still complain he picked the wrong team. Guy clearly has his faults but he's won 9 on the bounce give him some credit.

Do find the can't see a victory baffling comment to make. Off course this NZ team can beat England but they're very beatable. Having watched them against the Scotland forwards, I think England have better chance of beating them. NZ bench saved them and England can match them in the bench department.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Looks to me like he's prioritised impact off the bench over selecting a team that can actually stay in the game for the first 60 mins. Hope to be proven wrong though.

havent check how true this is but there is definately the feeling NZ comes out slow in the second half...Razor not known for game changing half time speaches.....so impact early in the second might not be a bad game plan

 

[Saintjay]

That's absolute nonsense, sorry. We could lose narrowly, but we ain't getting destroyed by that All Blacks side. If the ABs couldn't beat Scotland by 30-40 points after being 17-0 up at HT against a team they've never lost against, there's absolutely no chance they do it to us. This pathetic, loser-like fawning over the ABs every time we play them gets right on my nerves. The home nations put the All Blacks on this ridiculous pedestal and treat them like immortal gods every year and it's just embarrassing. This is a team that lost in Argentina this year, conceded 36 points in one half in a record defeat to SA, and scraped narrow wins in 2 out of 3 test matches against a French C side. They would have lost to Scotland last week had the Scots had any sort of belief in themselves. We're at home, we've won our last 9 matches and we've got a settled side - we should expect to win and it's unacceptable if we don't.

In regards to the home nations. England, Wales, Scotland vs The All Blacks. 116 games and 11 wins total i think. It's understandable why people see the All Blacks as they do.

We've won nine games on the spin. Beating one team ranked above 6th in the world. Four wins vs teams ranked 9th or below. We should expect to win those games. The only team of note was France. Who just got humped by 14 man SA. I'd say England's results or win ratio under Bothwick isn't any more earth shattering than the AB's.

Saturday will give us a better idea where we are at. I hope we win, I think we can. The All Blacks will build and get better nearer to the RWC. It's Englands golden opportunity. However I'm still going for an All Blacks win. Mainly on the basis I think they'd edge the numbers in a combined XV.

 

[wombles]

The ABs are an excellent team that play a wonderful brand of rugby and know how to play for 80 minutes. It is never shameful to lose against a team of their quality.
But England are a rapidly improving test team building depth and quality, and are also starting to show they are an 80 minute test animal themselves. It is never shameful to lose against a team of their quality.
This test promises to be a humdinger with some exceptionally high standard rugby as both teams are more than capable! Heart says England, head says New Zealand, but frankly either team could win it.

 

[Scotty]

I actually like the impact bench, it's a risk to an extent but Baxter and Hayes are more than capable and have shown it, also George is reliable and solid. Even if they only do 40 min if it's going wrong I can't see the front row as the reason we lose tp the ABs but I can see the impact of bringing on Genge LCD Stuart in the second half, with CCS's power aswell then curry and Pollock in the back row.

As far as an impact bench goes that's a good one. 6/2 is a risk and we could end up with Staward on the wing which is not good at this level but I do like what Borthwicks doing as a whole