Is it me, or do Welsh rugby players on average sound much less strongly-accented than in the past?

[Tooting Carmen]

I know it is a trite and silly topic at one level, but it is something that has really struck me watching interviews of Welsh rugby players from recent years. The majority don't sound anything like as strongly-accented as the likes of Jiffy or Scott Quinnell, even those from similar social or regional origins as them. Furthermore, some individual Welsh rugby players over the years have themselves undergone notable accent decay (university? media coaching?)

Here is how Jonathan 'Fox' Davies sounds now: compared to this:
And compare Rhys Priestland present and past:

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don’t think there’s a huge difference but I also don’t think you’re completely imagining it either. Maybe has something to do with th fact that these guys are on a lot of podcasts these days and perhaps they, without knowing really, adjust their accent slightly so they’re understood more easily. It’s like the classic Scotsman having a different accent when they are south of the border as opposed to when they’re in Scotland.

 

[Welsh Exile]

When I took my son back home to see my family for the first time o took him to the local (which does have a lot of Welsh speakers to be fair) where a few people were taking to him (in English obviously) and he asked me if I could tell the people in the pub to stop speaking in Welsh. lol.

My dad shook his head and left the table. Haha.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

When I took my son back home to see my family for the first time o took him to the local (which does have a lot of Welsh speakers to be fair) where a few people were taking to him (in English obviously) and he asked me if I could tell the people in the pub to stop speaking in Welsh. lol.

My dad shook his head and left the table. Haha.

LOL. Anyway, what do you think of my past and present Priestland and Foxy videos? Mind you, further proving my point, their accents were hardly Quinnell/Jiffy tier even when they were younger.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

This being said, of the current squad there are still some with consistently strong accents, such as Corey Domachowski, Nicky Smith, Ryan Elias and Josh Adams, but they are definitely less the norm than in the past.

 

[Welsh Exile]

LOL. Anyway, what do you think of my past and present Priestland and Foxy videos? Mind you, further proving my point, their accents were hardly Quinnell/Jiffy tier even when they were younger.

Yeah, I think there is something to it but the change isn’t night and day. I think it’s probably a subconscious thing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is it largely just to moving away from home, especially moving into an international environment?

My friends who have moved abroad have very different accents when they come home to visit

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Yeah, I think there is something to it but the change isn’t night and day. I think it’s probably a subconscious thing.

Is it largely just to moving away from home, especially moving into an international environment?

My friends who have moved abroad have very different accents when they come home to visit

Of the two examples I posted of accent decay, in the case of Priestland it clearly does have something to do with his time in Bath. Here he sounds closer to his current accent:

However, in Foxy's case, apart from two years in Clermont (and that was a decade ago now), he has always been at the Scarlets. Furthermore, Priestland himself has also been back in Wales since 2021.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

A few came up through the English system (schooling, academy) - at an age when accents can be mocked, and deliberately changed.
A few play for English (and other) clubs - older, but accents often drift when there's a large mix.
The rest, playing in Wales, have more overseas team-mates - and again, accents drift towards each other, even when one predominates.
Nationally, simple exposure (friends, radio, TV, social media etc) is likely to reduce accents of all types towards a more neutral one - over a fairly long time frame.

Of course, it may not even be true. We're talking about a pretty small sample size, after all.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

While most prominent Welsh reporters/pundits are for sure not so heavily-accented, nonetheless Quinnell and Jiffy have had reasonably successful media careers even with such strong accents. The two of them also spent significant time playing outside of Wales, moreover. In short, there is definitely a generational divide - the younger generations (television, film, social/geographical mobility, education) definitely sound different to their elders in many cases, even without going to university or moving far from home. But even with those caveats, I still feel Welsh rugby is gradually abandoning its strongly working-class culture and slowly but surely undergoing embourgeoisement, ironically resembling its neighbour more and more.

 

[Welsh Exile]

While most prominent Welsh reporters/pundits are for sure not so heavily-accented, nonetheless Quinnell and Jiffy have had reasonably successful media careers even with such strong accents. The two of them also spent significant time playing outside of Wales, moreover. In short, there is definitely a generational divide - the younger generations (television, film, social/geographical mobility, education) definitely sound different to their elders in many cases, even without going to university or moving far from home. But even with those caveats, I still feel Welsh rugby is gradually abandoning its strongly working-class culture and slowly but surely undergoing embourgeoisement, ironically resembling its neighbour more and more.

Ironically don’t we have more Welsh speakers today than we did in the 70s?

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Ironically don’t we have more Welsh speakers today than we did in the 70s?

Seriously? I think back then the Welsh rugby system was a lot more autarkic and working-class - even the more middle-class types like JPR Williams (doctor whose father was a solicitor) and Gareth Edwards (educated partly at an English private school) spoke with fairly marked accents at least in part in order to 'fit in'. By contrast, nowadays the 'fitting in' is increasingly in the opposite direction, if you get my drift.

Here is another recent video with Foxy, this time with other Scarlets players of his generation. He does sound different to them:

 

[Tooting Carmen]

This being said, even the growing number of 'partial code-switchers' are distinctly leaky. Here is a podcast featuring Josh Adams and Ellis Jenkins. The former has a consistently strong accent, the latter sounds notably milder than might be expected for the Rhondda, but there are moments when it comes out more when he is happy/excited/relaxed, such as at 1:09 and 20:00 :

Another podcast has Dillon Lewis and Jarrod Evans, who are both leaky code-switchers. As with Jenkins, their accents come out more when they are more excited/happy/relaxed:

 

[Brown Bottle]

I smell an agenda.

 

[Deleted member 91904]

I know little of Welsh accents but professionalism making the game very lucrative surely increased the number of upper and middle class background players getting to that level.

Australian rules football has more private school accents than it used to because the millions of dollars means parents no longer have reason to steer their kids toward 'sensible' career paths.

 

[Deleted member 91904]

private school in Australia means non-government school. Typically full of students whose parents are willing and able to pay more than a government school asks.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

I know little of Welsh accents but professionalism making the game very lucrative surely increased the number of upper and middle class background players getting to that level.

Australian rules football has more private school accents than it used to because the money means parents no longer have reason to steer their kids toward 'sensible' career paths.

Funny you say that, because if anything amateurism was less beneficial to working than middle-class people, precisely due to the lack of payments. In Wales, a major reason why union stayed (or more accurately became) mostly working-class was due to the open secret of 'boot money'.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Despite both being from the Swansea Valley, compare Joe Hawkins to Justin Tipuric:


And Hawkins' accent has changed even further after returning home from Exeter:

 

[Saintjay]

In the North and North West you are more likely to find Welsh speakers. They don't tend to have the stereotypical Welsh accent. If anything it's more likely to be a slight Liverpool / Cheshire / Wirral accent.

Hence the common opinion in the North that the South isn't real Wales. Bit like with England and the North / South divide.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

In the North and North West you are more likely to find Welsh speakers. They don't tend to have the stereotypical Welsh accent. If anything it's more likely to be a slight Liverpool / Cheshire / Wirral accent.

Hence the common opinion in the North that the South isn't real Wales. Bit like with England and the North / South divide.

The overwhelming majority of current players come from South Wales, just like in the past.

 

[Saintjay]

The overwhelming majority of current players come from South Wales, just like in the past.

Partly because both politicaly and with the WRU the world revolves around Cardiff. That's probably a seperated debate.

Population density is a factor with all good opportunities for young players being in the South or across the boarder.Setting up RGC 1404 was a step forward for the North.

Be interesting to know how many Welsh posters here can speak Welsh rather than just sound 'Welsh'.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is it largely just to moving away from home, especially moving into an international environment?

My friends who have moved abroad have very different accents when they come home to visit

Yeah it's a common enough thing. My mum is from Belfast but has been in Dublin for nearly 35 years. Her accent is noticeably stronger when speaking to friends / family and they probably think she's lost it a bit. Dad grew up in Northampton and while Irish people usually notice an accent, English people just think he's Irish. Both moved in their early / mid 20s.

Rory Mcilroy is the same, still has a north of Ireland accent but very dulled down to when he broke out in the late 00s.

I reckon if you move permanently anywhere the accent will change somewhat, but probably as you get into your late 20s and beyond, and depending on how we'll locals understand your home accent, it'll get less noticeable. In your teens you'll see people lose their accent completely.

I randomly enough came across Daniel Whelan who is an NFL punter that moved from Ireland to the U.S when he was 13, you'd never know he stepped foot in Ireland in his life based on how he speaks.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Be interesting to know how many Welsh posters here can speak Welsh rather than just sound 'Welsh'.

That's another interesting phenomenon, in Ireland, Irish is far more prominent in rural areas. Likely a result of it being harder to kill the language in remote areas back when ye were up to that craic. While it is definitely growing in more urban areas, that's mostly as a (very commendable) hobby because there's no need for it in professional jobs whereas in rural areas where the majority of people will work in primary or secondary industries, it can be used on a daily basis.

 

[Welsh Exile]

My brother moved to Australia when he was 22 and started speaking Australian after a couple of weeks. He still sounds like someone speaking with a fake Ozzie accent to this day. What a prick.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Partly because both politicaly and with the WRU the world revolves around Cardiff. That's probably a seperated debate.

Population density is a factor with all good opportunities for young players being in the South or across the boarder.Setting up RGC 1404 was a step forward for the North.

Be interesting to know how many Welsh posters here can speak Welsh rather than just sound 'Welsh'.

I don’t speak Welsh. I don’t even sound that Welsh these days (though still get the odd person who picks up on a Welsh tinge)

My dad being from Neath/Aberavon was never a Welsh speaker but has been living out in Pembrokeshire for the last 20 years and is pretty fluent in Welsh now. I’d say he can probably understand 90% of what is said to him in the pub and can converse to a pretty good standard.

 

[Saintjay]

That's another interesting phenomenon, in Ireland, Irish is far more prominent in rural areas. Likely a result of it being harder to kill the language in remote areas back when ye were up to that craic. While it is definitely growing in more urban areas, that's mostly as a (very commendable) hobby because there's no need for it in professional jobs whereas in rural areas where the majority of people will work in primary or secondary industries, it can be used on a daily basis.

Sounds very similar to North Wales. Nearly everyone i worked with could speak Welsh due to how rural it was.

One guy only started speaking English from about 12.

I learnt quite quickly various Welsh phrases for "Here comes the Sais English idiot".

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Rory Mcilroy is the same, still has a north of Ireland accent but very dulled down to when he broke out in the late 00s.

Funny you mention him, I noticed that when he was interviewed the other day on Channel 4 News. I'd also add that Mike Phillips has softened his accent to a degree comparable to McIlroy, though he certainly still retains it more than Priestland and (oddly enough) even Foxy.

Mike Phillips past:






Mike Phillips present:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB4EwVFW5ow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPI4p5lmxaY&pp=ygUjbWlrZSBwaGlsbGlwcyBydWdieSBpbnRlcnZpZXcgeW91bmc=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh1N7BUFNuM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPW5H3qKaM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWR...sbGlwcyBydWdieSBpbnRlcnZpZXfSBwkJ0woBhyohjO8=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1m...wcmVkaWN0cyBzaXggbmF0aW9ucyByZXN1bHRzIDIwMTk= (Right at the end, he mockingly imitates a West Wales accent that is probably closer to his childhood voice)

 

[BrokenWing]

It’s like the classic Scotsman having a different accent when they are south of The Equator as opposed to when they’re in Scotland.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

More generally, when I first moved to Wales over twenty years ago, I was surprised by how Anglicised many people in the Welsh media sound. (Not everyone for sure, but a disproportionate number nonetheless). This being said, the majority of journalists on BBC Wales Today and ITV Wales News don't have RP accents as such, but a kind of middle-class Cardiff accent that is nevertheless still quite far removed from how most people in the Valleys, West Wales and even much of Swansea sound.

At the same time, nor should we think that only those who sound like Jiffy, Scott Quinnell or Max Boyce represent the 'authentic' sound of (South) Wales. They are typical of their social origins and generations, but not so much the younger generations or the middle-classes.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

A couple of non-rugby examples of Welshmen whose accents have declined substantially:

Rhod Gilbert in 2009


Rhod Gilbert in 2022


Aneurin Barnard in 2012


Aneurin Barnard now