Your most disappointing 6N, TRC or Tour ?

[TRF_heineken]

I think for South Africa the entire 2003 was the worst we ever had.

during the Tri-nations we only won 1 game, vs. Australia. We lost 16-52 vs. NZ at Loftus.
Then we had the whole "Kamp Staaldraad" shambles
and then the RWC. Derick Hougaard's very short Springbok career, ending in a Brian Lima tackle...

 

[psychic duck]

I think for South Africa the entire 2003 was the worst we ever had.

during the Tri-nations we only won 1 game, vs. Australia. We lost 16-52 vs. NZ at Loftus.
Then we had the whole "Kamp Staaldraad" shambles
and then the RWC. Derick Hougaard's very short Springbok career, ending in a Brian Lima tackle...

Streauli's whole time in charge was certainly the lowest point for South Africa since readmission. Awful.

New Zealand under Mitchell at the same time won't be remembered too fondly either. I don't want to take anything away from England, but they timed their period of best in the world nicely amongst some of the low points of SANZAR rugby.

That's the main reason I rate the 2005-07 All Blacks as the best. They ruled the rugby world whilst South Africa, Australia and France were all strong contenders who could beat anyone on their day. They may look better statistically now in terms of winning streaks etc, but now Australia are weaker than they have been for a long while, South Africa's side are still inexperienced and the threat from Europe has decreased with France largely being crap under PSA, Wales being limited one trick ponies and England at a crossroads of what direction of tactics they want to go with.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Streauli's whole time in charge was certainly the lowest point for South Africa since readmission. Awful.

New Zealand under Mitchell at the same time won't be remembered too fondly either. I don't want to take anything away from England, but they timed their period of best in the world nicely amongst some of the low points of SANZAR rugby.

That's the main reason I rate the 2005-07 All Blacks as the best. They ruled the rugby world whilst South Africa, Australia and France were all strong contenders who could beat anyone on their day. They may look better statistically now in terms of winning streaks etc, but now Australia are weaker than they have been for a long while, South Africa's side are still inexperienced and the threat from Europe has decreased with France largely being crap under PSA, Wales being limited one trick ponies and England at a crossroads of what direction of tactics they want to go with.

It wasn't just the lowest point, it had such a huge damaging effect. Especially the whole "Kamp Staaldraad" bootcamp. I think the damage is still to an extent part of us.

this era started actually in 2002 when Jannes Labuschagne got a red card against England at Twickers for a late tackle on Johnny Wilkinson. I think that was also the incident that started the whole "South Africans are Bullies" discussions...

 

[Big Ewis]

I think for South Africa the entire 2003 was the worst we ever had.

during the Tri-nations we only won 1 game, vs. Australia. We lost 16-52 vs. NZ at Loftus.
Then we had the whole "Kamp Staaldraad" shambles
and then the RWC. Derick Hougaard's very short Springbok career, ending in a Brian Lima tackle...

clearly...no doubt this is S.A.'s worst era. But as a Tour overall ?

But yeh about that era...SA lost easily to England in the RWC Pool, they'd lost to England 53-3 (red card though), had a 30-10 loss to France and a record loss to Scotland too.
I read articles that said they were constantly looking to make dirty plays, make silly fouls...etc...they even had a murderer on the team apparently

Anyways, they sort of uhh...made up for it in the next RWC...

 

[Larksea]

funny, 1998 seemed like a good year to me. I did not watch rugby much, wasn't even really interested in it and was traveling around the world on OE. I came back to NZ for a flying visit and went to AB's vs England at eden park. that was the only game I watched or had any interest in that year. I had no idea we did so badly in the trinations.

worst for me was 2009

it basically came down to an absolute shambles at lineout time. Boks dominated our lineout and kicked 50-60m penalty goals, i was ugly.

At the end of that Trinations Hansen lost his role as forwards coach, Henry took over and Isaac Ross was dropped for Tom Donnelly. And it was basically a complete turnaround, Tom Donnelly deserves a lot of credit and should have been given more chances in the AB's. I think he played 17 tests for 16 wins. Isaac Ross only had a 50% win record with the AB's.

AB's did end 2009 on a high, regained the #1 IRB ranking and looked in awesome form.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

2011 6N we were the best team in the 6N that year with a massive win in Cardiff but then went to Dublin and got stuffed by an average Irish team, it wasnt that we lost it was the manner in which we lost, the irish wanted it more and slapped our forwards about like they were boys and even though the last 2 years we have slapped the irish forwards about it still hurts.

 

[MauriSca7]

The summer tour that Italy made in june in South Africa,I still feel shame for this after 4 months

 

[Big Ewis]

The summer tour that Italy made in june in South Africa,I still feel shame for this after 4 months

WHAT ?! Your biggest shame should be beating France in 2011 and 2013, how dare you do that ?!

Good to see an Italian on here finally, and please - stay !

But yeh, I was very, very disappointed by the Squadra in that quadrangular thing last summer...the defense just wasn't there. And it's annoying too, because we've seen the form they can be on when they click just some months ago in the 2013 6N.

 

[MauriSca7]

WHAT ?! Your biggest shame should be beating France in 2011 and 2013, how dare you do that ?!

Good to see an Italian on here finally, and please - stay !

But yeh, I was very, very disappointed by the Squadra in that quadrangular thing last summer...the defense just wasn't there. And it's annoying too, because we've seen the form they can be on when they click just some months ago in the 2013 6N.

Unfortunately Italy has a bad habit,after a step forward they make 3 steps back,after a victory or a good performance they feel the "full belly" and start doing stupid things.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think that 30-3 game against Wales hurt. There was very little that went right for England in that. Defence was sloppy, players were not into the game in the same way the Welsh players were, Walsh was completely one sided in the scrum, inability to finish the few chances we had and mostly it was the Welsh. Having said that it was always coming as England looked like they didn't care after the first game.

 

[j'nuh]

I think that 30-3 game against Wales hurt. There was very little that went right for England in that. Defence was sloppy, players were not into the game in the same way the Welsh players were, Walsh was completely one sided in the scrum, inability to finish the few chances we had and mostly it was the Welsh. Having said that it was always coming as England looked like they didn't care after the first game.

To be honest, I'm kind of glad it happened in retrospect. I think it was the wake-up call England needed. It would have been the most lacklustre side to have won a six nations that I know about...

 

[Big Ewis]

Unfortunately Italy has a bad habit,after a step forward they make 3 steps back,after a victory or a good performance they feel the "full belly" and start doing stupid things.

haha that's right ! But we'll see what Italy can manage in November...

To be honest, I'm kind of glad it happened in retrospect. I think it was the wake-up call England needed. It would have been the most lacklustre side to have won a six nations that I know about...

I respectfully agree with you man. I'm sorry this is coming from a froggie, but England were totally flat the whole tournament, scored no tries (even the Tuilagi against France was illegal), and were in deed extremely lack-lustre.
That's the reason why I was so happy Wales won, because I felt if England had won it, and got the Grand Slam, it wouldn't have been "fair". Of course there's no injustice in winning, but still, just the way they did...
that's why I was so virulent on these boards at the time. I was utterly disgusted by the idea England would actually achieve the Grand Slam...like THAT.

Winning is the goal, but if Rugby is tight defense and kicking penalties and 9-6 type scores...I'm switching to even watching chess on TV.

But could this still rank as one of the biggest disappointments in English Rugby ? They did win all the games throughout the tournament and were fighting for the title or even Grand Slam, and lost BOTH...IN WALES...
Is that a historical disappointment, or not really ?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

haha that's right ! But we'll see what Italy can manage in November...



I respectfully agree with you man. I'm sorry this is coming from a froggie, but England were totally flat the whole tournament, scored no tries (even the Tuilagi against France was illegal), and were in deed extremely lack-lustre.
That's the reason why I was so happy Wales won, because I felt if England had won it, and got the Grand Slam, it wouldn't have been "fair". Of course there's no injustice in winning, but still, just the way they did...
that's why I was so virulent on these boards at the time. I was utterly disgusted by the idea England would actually achieve the Grand Slam...like THAT.

Winning is the goal, but if Rugby is tight defense and kicking penalties and 9-6 type scores...I'm switching to even watching chess on TV.

But could this still rank as one of the biggest disappointments in English Rugby ? They did win all the games throughout the tournament and were fighting for the title or even Grand Slam, and lost BOTH...IN WALES...
Is that a historical disappointment, or not really ?

This is England - Wales we are talking about. Losing anything to Wales is bad but losing the grandslam to a Welsh team that then retains the 6 nations in Wales and the biggest loss in English history against Wales, yeah it's pretty historical.

 

[Thingimubob]

This is England - Wales we are talking about. Losing anything to Wales is bad but losing the grandslam to a Welsh team that then retains the 6 nations in Wales and the biggest loss in English history against Wales, yeah it's pretty historical.

The look on my English mates faces after Cuthberts second will live long in my memory

2009 was a pretty rough one, especially since we'd have won another grandslam had we scored a late try against France and if Stephen Jones' penalty vs Ireland had been a few metres further... That said, didn't have too much of a grudge since the Irish deserved their Grandslam!

2007 was pretty crap too, the last win against England barely papered over the cracks of Gyppos regime...

And to add a club one, I'm still not 100% over that Cardiff vs Leicester penalty shoot out in 2009...

 

[Big Ewis]

This is England - Wales we are talking about. Losing anything to Wales is bad but losing the grandslam to a Welsh team that then retains the 6 nations in Wales and the biggest loss in English history against Wales, yeah it's pretty historical.

right, forgot about that as I was asking the question...true, true...

 

[MauriSca7]

haha that's right ! But we'll see what Italy can manage in November...

Over that there are other example as the 1999 tour always in South Africa,where Italy lost 101-0,and the world cup in the same year,then there are other example but I would go OT

 

[Big Ewis]

haha that's right ! But we'll see what Italy can manage in November...

Over that there are other example as the 1999 tour always in South Africa,where Italy lost 101-0,and the world cup in the same year,then there are other example but I would go OT

well that year and that era all around they weren't competitive, simple as that. No need to be disappointed...I would say Italy personally has disappointed me the most during that S.A. quadrangular. They looked so good during that opening weekend of the 2013 6N, and then they go back to crap to be honest, and then look good again in Twickenham of all places. I thought it was the first time Italy looked like a true Tier 1 threat, as opposed to a side with promising potential and sneaky upsets on their minds. But then, total disaster. I'm not even concerned they didn't win a game, it's the way they performed and lost those matches.

 

[j'nuh]

I respectfully agree with you man. I'm sorry this is coming from a froggie, but England were totally flat the whole tournament, scored no tries (even the Tuilagi against France was illegal), and were in deed extremely lack-lustre.
That's the reason why I was so happy Wales won, because I felt if England had won it, and got the Grand Slam, it wouldn't have been "fair". Of course there's no injustice in winning, but still, just the way they did...
that's why I was so virulent on these boards at the time. I was utterly disgusted by the idea England would actually achieve the Grand Slam...like THAT.

Hey, haven't you heard? It's okay for an Englishman to complain about England, but when a non-Englishman does it? There will be blood.

 

[Zed]

What I don't get, when watching the 6N, is how a lot of teams (primarily England, Ireland & Scotland) the latter being the worst, continually play 10 man rugby, kicking away decent possession whilst in the oppositions half. What usually eventuates is 9 or 10 gets the ball & does an up & under or box kick, back 3 catch and kick it back repeat ad nauseaum. Out of the 10 times they do it, they may get one knock on or one poorly returned kick from which they benefit. Yet they still persist? I get when it's wet you can't really play an expansive game, but you have other options other than kicking the ball to the opposition. I think as long as NH teams persist in doing this, the gap between the NH & SH teams will remain. The SH as in NZ & SA, not including us, because we are ***** at the moment and will probably lose our Autumn tests.

 

[Big Ewis]

Hey, haven't you heard? It's okay for an Englishman to complain about England, but when a non-Englishman does it? There will be blood.

hah. WELL LET THERE BE BLOOD THEN !!

I guess that 6N tournament shows just how capricious a team is. Any team. England is more consistent globally than, say, France which is known for its inconsistency; but they'd lost a couple of very winnable games at home against Australia and the Boks, and then play that match where everything was near perfect, every aspect of the match - and then they come into the 6N with the most unimpressive, conservative wins.
That match against the All-Blacks there really sticks out like a sore, sore thumb.

That's why there's absolutely no telling what WILL happen, amongst Tier 1 opposition (obviously Georgia won't beat the AB's for e.g.). We think we've measured all the parameters ever so meticulously, have studied both teams inside out of a given match-up, looked at recent and distant history alike between both sides...etc.....and bam, we're horribly wrong in our prognostics !