Aviva Premiership - Round 13

[goodNumber10]

Yeah, bit he was playing senior rugby last year which means to me he was playing seniors.

So first year in senior squad.

Either way, he's got 50 appearances, he's not a newbie....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Semantics.

No - he is a newbie, he's 21 and this is his first year out of the academy.

The fact that he has played 50 times for the club shows how silly the idea of him moving on because of lack of game-time is.

 

[j'nuh]

Devoto isn't a 10 imo. And with Ford and Priestland, he won't be used there much any way.
Even if Burgess moves to the backrow, Devoto has to contend with Eastmond and Joseph in the centres. I've read Bath fans calling Joseph Bath's player of the season so far, and Eastmond is too important to be removed. They could rotate with Devoto, but Devoto could start at a lot of the Premiership clubs.
At 15, there's Watson, Henson and Agulla. Henson and Agulla may move on and Watson may develop more as a winger. I think his best shot at making Bath is at 15. If he isn't given that platform or if he wants to play 12/13, he should move to another club.

Semantics.

No - he is a newbie, he's 21 and this is his first year out of the academy.

The fact that he has played 50 times for the club shows how silly the idea of him moving on because of lack of game-time is.

The better and more prominent he gets, the more of a role he expects to be playing. (Rightly so.) He's clearly not first-choice for Bath, but he could be elsewhere. It is something to be concerned about.

 

[goodNumber10]

yes, it is splitting hairs.

No, it's not silly, he's played 50 times and been benched for a guy who's just started playing. If I was him i'd be royally out to prove a point.....

- - - Updated - - -

Devoto isn't a 10 imo. And with Ford and Priestland, he won't be used there much any way.
Even if Burgess moves to the backrow, Devoto has to contend with Eastmond and Joseph in the centres. I've read Bath fans calling Joseph Bath's player of the season so far, and Eastmond is too important to be removed. They could rotate with Devoto, but Devoto could start at a lot of the Premiership clubs.
At 15, there's Watson, Henson and Agulla. Henson and Agulla may move on and Watson may develop more as a winger. I think his best shot at making Bath is at 15. If he isn't given that platform or if he wants to play 12/13, he should move to another club.

agree with all of that....

The better and more prominent he gets, the more of a role he expects to be playing. (Rightly so.) He's clearly not first-choice for Bath, but he could be elsewhere. It is something to be concerned about.

Exactly

 

[Peat]

Think I agree with both points. He's already been namechecked as missing England training camps due to injury and has clearly demonstrated all of the raw abilities to get to the top; he is already at or around the point where he can say "I need the big games for my international career and there's plenty of clubs that will give them to me if you don't". But, equally, a dude who has racked up 50 club games by the age of 21, who's been backed by his coaches to stay in the team in front of Eastmond when he was outperforming him, that's a dude who knows his coaches like him, trust him, and will give him a shot at making those big games. The Burgess situation complicates things a little but right now that looks temporary.

As a fan of his, I wish he was playing more right now and hope he's prepared to be ruthless and move on if things don't develop in his favour - but there's no particular reason to assume they will; they could, but I fully appreciate any Bath fan getting mildly tetchy of so much discussion of a "could". I do think long term one of Eastmind or Devoto will move on, but I definitely wouldn't assume Devoto would be the one that does, and I think we're two seasons or so away from that happening at least.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's exactly my point, Peat.

 

[goodNumber10]

Wait, so your point all along was he may well move on if he continues to be passed over for other players?

 

[ratsapprentice]

No - that there isn't any real reason for Devoto to move on as it stands.

Clearly there may be at some point in the future, but that goes without saying - it's the case for all players.

 

[goodNumber10]

which is exactly what everyone else here has said - i don't think anyone is suggesting he'll leave next week.

Look i know i'm being obtuse here, but the point is if bath keep playing others in his position long term, and are buying in top flight players in the same positions then he's really going to be left with no alternative but to waste away into a bit part squad player, or chip off and make a claim.

As it stands with Bath i can see him being a wasted talent.

It's the exact same position Ford was in at Tigers.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Devoto should go to somewhere like Quins or Exeter IMO, although Leicester might be after a 12.

 

[j'nuh]

No - that there isn't any real reason for Devoto to move on as it stands.

Clearly there may be at some point in the future, but that goes without saying - it's the case for all players.

I thought the same about Ryan Mills. He was a bright prospect, got plenty of game time, had even less competition in his positions and he moved on to be first-choice regardless.

Truth is, I think that when there are two England internationals and the new saviour of English rugby in front of you in your positions, something's gotta give. I think at least one of the four has to leave. I don't think you can keep all of them happy.

 

[goodNumber10]

although Leicester might be after a 12.

Poor Lad, imagine being reduced to that....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Mauger is coming if you haven't heard.

TBF I'm really excited about that. Him and Murphy were reasonable for us getting 5TBP wins in a row and getting us to the HC F.

Trouble with Devoto though is he is English.

 

[goodNumber10]

I thought the same about Ryan Mills. He was a bright prospect, got plenty of game time, had even less competition in his positions and he moved on to be first-choice regardless.

Truth is, I think that when there are two England internationals and the new saviour of English rugby in front of you in your positions, something's gotta give. I think at least one of the four has to leave. I don't think you can keep all of them happy.

Lets not forget Devoto was in the England BaaBaas squad this year as well, he should be a starting 10/12 not a bench player.

I mean it's not even a rotation policy is it? Eastmond goes out, Burgess comes in Devoto stays on the bench - this time last year Devoto was keeping Eastmond out of the match day squad yet now he gets 20 minutes at the end of a game whilst Ford plays with his new toy.

As a comparison Fekitoa is 22, and has 8 caps for New Zealand, he started playing for the Blues in 2013. If Devoto wants to play international rugby he should be playing first team rugby and commanding a starting place.

Mauger is coming if you haven't heard.

TBF I'm really excited about that. Him and Murphy were reasonable for us getting 5TBP wins in a row and getting us to the HC F.

Trouble with Devoto though is he is English.

Yeah, i am a big fan of Mauger, i think Tigers have made a very astute signing there and it wouldn't be bad for Devoto to work with a coach of that calibre.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tigers to do a Ford on bath.

News coming in Leicester have hired his dad as head academy coach in preparation.

 

[yaboyjj]

Devoto should go to somewhere like Quins or Exeter IMO, although Leicester might be after a 12.

I would prefer him to go to quins to play inside Lowe, as Exeter already have Hill/Slade.

Kruis up before the citing panel today for the tip tackle at the weekend- could be a 4 week ban. I wonder is this opens up the door for Itoje- he's been tearing up trees in the A games, Hargreaves I think is still injured at the moment so this may be his big chance?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Everyone seems to be assuming that Devoto won't be first choice at 12 (his best position in my opinion) as long as Eastmond is around, and I don't think we can necessarily assume this. Yes, at the moment Eastmond is undeniably ahead, but players can lose form and, more importantly, gain form. Devoto has the ability to be just as good as KE, given a run in the first team (if KE was injured, say) who's to say he wouldn't play himself into the starting spot on merit? I certainly don't think he will be resigning himself to a bench spot just yet

 

[goodNumber10]

Everyone seems to be assuming that Devoto won't be first choice at 12 (his best position in my opinion) as long as Eastmond is around, and I don't think we can necessarily assume this. Yes, at the moment Eastmond is undeniably ahead, but players can lose form and, more importantly, gain form. Devoto has the ability to be just as good as KE, given a run in the first team (if KE was injured, say) who's to say he wouldn't play himself into the starting spot on merit? I certainly don't think he will be resigning himself to a bench spot just yet

well i think people are basing it on the fact that a promising england hopeful is sat warming the bench whilst Burgess gets a jog out.... Eastmond has urned his spurs hard to argue against him not playing, but if Eastmond is out (which i presume he is) then Devoto should ahve been the next option.

that does kind of signal a lot of where Ford sees him int he pecking order. In fairness re-watching the game Burgess looked very very good, really starting to find his confdence and read the game.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I totally agree that Devoto should have played in front of Burgess. Ford thinks otherwise, but I don't for a moment think that he believes Burgess is the second best inside centre in his squad. He has chosen to follow a rigid policy of giving Sam as much game time as possible as quickly as possible, at the expense of picking his best team every week. Devoto may well be angry at this policy - I am - but he knows it doesn't reflect his genuine standing in the centre hierarchy, and won't mean a thing when SB is playing back row (probably sooner rather than later)

I do think it's a risky strategy though. I have expressed concern in the past that overpromotion of Burgess beyond his actual rugby ability could cause issues with squad morale, and I think this could be an example.

 

[welshglory]

Mate Devoto and tuilagi and or Burrell and Slade is the way the way to go. Eatmond, unfortunately with his size will never hack it, i'm a big fan but it just won't happen. Forget Twelvetrees he's average at best. I'm gonna say it again but Atkinson has so much potential, i love his style.