[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. South Africa (26/11/2016)

[Ragey Erasmus]

How many times has Davies run into touch?
People still saying he's the best 13 in the NH ooorrr....?

I think those people are almost exclusively Welsh who aren't aware anything has happened since 2012 except for them beating us in the world cup and that 30-3 win.

 

[SomeOke]

Sigh.

 

[dullonien]

Best performance of the Autumn for Wales and yet they were still pretty poor. I hope the fact that SA were truly shocking won't gloss over yet another mediocre Wales performance.

On SA, my god, what are they doing. Most of their attacks either ended in unenforced knock one, or being stripped of the ball. Wales applied good pressure in defense, but on occasion it was first phase ball that they were butchering! Something very wrong there.

Glad to see Tips having another blinder. He looked a class above tonight. As many Welsh supporters have been calling for for years, build a damned pack around this exceptionally talented player!

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Best performance of the Autumn for Wales and yet they were still pretty poor. I hope the fact that SA were truly shocking won't gloss over yet another mediocre Wales performance.

On SA, my god, what are they doing. Most of their attacks either ended in unenforced knock one, or being stripped of the ball. Wales applied good pressure in defense, but on occasion it was first phase ball that they were butchering! Something very wrong there.

Glad to see Tips having another blinder. He looked a class above tonight. As many Welsh supporters have been calling for for years, build a damned pack around this exceptionally talented player!

He is very special, you could play him in the centres and he would still be great

 

[Ospreylian]

Never thought in a million years as a Wales fan I would be disappointed with a 14 point win over South Africa, but here we are...

Again, there were countless try-scoring opportunities and Wales really should have been out of sight by half time at the latest. The South African defence, particularly in the first half, was absolutely woeful and Wales should have done so much more to exploit that. It felt like our attacking moves in general were a bit more aggressive and inventive than the first three tests, but we just can't finish them off. The fact we let South Africa back into the game at all begs belief tbh.

I think a lot of the attacking play is now ingrained in certain players' mindsets, and so some players are just not up to the job right now and need to be swapped. Jonathan Davies has gone stale and either runs into touch or kicks possession away, George North goes far too many games without making an impact, Dan Lydiate doesn't provide anywhere near enough in attack. I just wish the coaches were more willing to put some faith in and give a chance to some alternatives: Ashley Beck (apparently had a blinder against Glasgow last night), Ben John, Keelan Giles, James Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Steff Evans, Jonathan Evans, Eli Walker etc. There are just so many names at this point that have just been ignored for too long.

Tipuric was outstanding today. He really is our only player that could get into a world XV (perhaps AWJ and Gethin would fall in that category).

 

[Ospervat]

So here is the record for 2016 under the affirmative action run SARU.

Played 12
Won 4 - 33%
Lost 8 - 67%
Worst record in professional era

PF - 240
PA - 329
First time SA has finished season with more PA than PF

TF - 20
TA - 35
First time SA has finished season with more TA than TF

Finished IRB ranking 6th
equivalent worst with 2003/4 era who at least had a 52% win ratio.

Lost to Ireland for the first time ever at home.
Only the 2nd loss ever to Argentina
Biggest losing margin ever at home (NZ 57-15)
1st loss to an injury beset England side in over a decade.
Lost to Italy for the first time ever.
Only the 3rd loss ever to Wales who themselves are a side playing badly.

This is small peek into the state of chaos that exists in SA today. It is very indicative of the systematic destruction of a country that had so much potential.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I knew I'd got my prediction wrong after watching Tonga marginally outplay Italy for almost the entire 80mins. The Bok players clearly want a new coach. To say Allister's Coet is hanging on a shoogely peg would be an understatement, although I don't get the impression there are great options as replacement if Ackerman insists on staying at the Lions.

I almost literally cannot believe I was watching the same players as I was watching in Super Rugby. Welsh commentators were putting the boot into Faf, Elton and Pat. And what a sad debut for Rensburg. The Lions have been turned into lambs, and, perhaps appropriately the Welsh were on hand to screw them over!

As for Wales you can conclude precisely nothing from that game. Don't be fooled like I was with Italy last week. I can see Wales finishing fifth at the next 6N as their old guard of forwards slowly deteriorate. Still, wins against SA & Argentina with a backup coach is a million miles away from catastrophe.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So here is the record for 2016 under the affirmative action run SARU.

Played 12
Won 4 - 33%
Lost 8 - 67%
Worst record in professional era

PF - 240
PA - 329
First time SA has finished season with more PA than PF

TF - 20
TA - 35
First time SA has finished season with more TA than TF

Finished IRB ranking 6th
equivalent worst with 2003/4 era who at least had a 52% win ratio.

Lost to Ireland for the first time ever at home.
Only the 2nd loss ever to Argentina
Biggest losing margin ever at home (NZ 57-15)
1st loss to an injury beset England side in over a decade.
Lost to Italy for the first time ever.
Only the 3rd loss ever to Wales who themselves are a side playing badly.

This is small peek into the state of chaos that exists in SA today. It is very indicative of the systematic destruction of a country that had so much potential.

Apparently having the correct quota of black players and being a disaster is preferable to letting the team be picked without interference and doing well. When ideology is more important than outcome.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Apparently having the correct quota of black players and being a disaster is preferable to letting the team be picked without interference and doing well. When ideology is more important than outcome.

Like when they lost to Japan last year?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Like when they lost to Japan last year?

That was the start of the decline but that Japanese game was very much a 1 off. SA this autumn have been kicked about by everyone! As shown above, you don't break that many bad records in 1 year if everything is fine. What's the biggest change for SA rugby? Management and strict enforcement of quotas.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Never thought in a million years as a Wales fan I would be disappointed with a 14 point win over South Africa, but here we are...

Again, there were countless try-scoring opportunities and Wales really should have been out of sight by half time at the latest. The South African defence, particularly in the first half, was absolutely woeful and Wales should have done so much more to exploit that. It felt like our attacking moves in general were a bit more aggressive and inventive than the first three tests, but we just can't finish them off. The fact we let South Africa back into the game at all begs belief tbh.

I think a lot of the attacking play is now ingrained in certain players' mindsets, and so some players are just not up to the job right now and need to be swapped. Jonathan Davies has gone stale and either runs into touch or kicks possession away, George North goes far too many games without making an impact, Dan Lydiate doesn't provide anywhere near enough in attack. I just wish the coaches were more willing to put some faith in and give a chance to some alternatives: Ashley Beck (apparently had a blinder against Glasgow last night), Ben John, Keelan Giles, James Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Steff Evans, Jonathan Evans, Eli Walker etc. There are just so many names at this point that have just been ignored for too long.

Tipuric was outstanding today. He really is our only player that could get into a world XV (perhaps AWJ and Gethin would fall in that category).

Seriously, Gethin Jenkins in a world XV? I know Welsh fans wax lyrical about AWJ and JT, and although likely to get into Lions squad, individually, neither would get into a world XV if we were being completely objective.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tips is no where near a world XV FFS.

AWJ is the only player who might might be in a World XV cat.

 

[HenryChinaski]

I think those people are almost exclusively Welsh who aren't aware anything has happened since 2012 except for them beating us in the world cup and that 30-3 win.

wait...are you suggesting that other rugby games have happened since 2012???

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Tips is no where near a world XV FFS.

AWJ is the only player who might might be in a World XV cat.

Yeah...AWJ would be included as sort of +1 pity nomination.

 

[Ospreylian]

Tips is no where near a world XV FFS.

Alright, calm down, jeez.

I don't think it's fair to say he's "nowhere near". And I know I'm not the only one who sees him as one of the top players in the world in his position, and if you saw him week in week out at club level you might have a different view.

I suppose your world XV would be the current England team right? Aww, the honeymoon period following the arrival of a new coach... enjoy it while it lasts!

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's nowhere near.

 

[Ospreylian]

He's nowhere near.

well, when you put it like that... damn, you're right. What the hell was I thinking?


Great counter-argument man, you convinced me. Tom Wood is obviously the best in the world. Stupid me.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's nowhere near.

 

[Ospreylian]

He's nowhere near.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Tips is no where near a world XV FFS.

AWJ is the only player who might might be in a World XV cat.

Nup, the only Welshman who would get a look in would be Faletau.

 

[munstermuffin]

Sadly Wales will have majority of starters in New Zealand so we need them to pick it up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Sadly Wales will have majority of starters in New Zealand so we need them to pick it up.

Even Gatland won't be able to stuff the Lions with Welsh this time. Last time they had won the Grand slam the year before and then won the 6N again with a convincing win over England. This time they haven't won anything since the last Lions test and I somehow doubt the "best" autumn internationals in recent Welsh history or knocking England out of the world cup last year will be enough. They will have to win the 6N this year for him to consider packing out the Lions with Welsh players and I see nothing in the Welsh side to suggest they could beat Ireland or England, hell maybe not even Scotland or France either.

 

[profitius]

Even Gatland won't be able to stuff the Lions with Welsh this time. Last time they had won the Grand slam the year before and then won the 6N again with a convincing win over England. This time they haven't won anything since the last Lions test and I somehow doubt the "best" autumn internationals in recent Welsh history or knocking England out of the world cup last year will be enough. They will have to win the 6N this year for him to consider packing out the Lions with Welsh players and I see nothing in the Welsh side to suggest they could beat Ireland or England, hell maybe not even Scotland or France either.

He'll make a go of it. He picked Cuthbert and Ian Evans for the last squad among 16 Welsh players in total.

 

[smartcooky]

So here is the record for 2016 under the affirmative action run SARU.

Played 12
Won 4 - 33%
Lost 8 - 67%
Worst record in professional era

PF - 240
PA - 329
First time SA has finished season with more PA than PF

TF - 20
TA - 35
First time SA has finished season with more TA than TF

Finished IRB ranking 6th
equivalent worst with 2003/4 era who at least had a 52% win ratio.

Lost to Ireland for the first time ever at home.
Only the 2nd loss ever to Argentina
Biggest losing margin ever at home (NZ 57-15)
1st loss to an injury beset England side in over a decade.
Lost to Italy for the first time ever.
Only the 3rd loss ever to Wales who themselves are a side playing badly.

This is small peek into the state of chaos that exists in SA today. It is very indicative of the systematic destruction of a country that had so much potential.

This is what happens when politicians gut your team selections!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He'll make a go of it. He picked Cuthbert and Ian Evans for the last squad among 16 Welsh players in total.

Reports that Howley is set to be named as attack coach as well.
Jesus wept.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Cuthbert?
Aye Carumba.
There several Welsh players who are worth their place in the Lions however the form teams are Ireland and England.

 

[jomjom]

Is it worth the replay?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Tips is no where near a world XV FFS.

AWJ is the only player who might might be in a World XV cat.

Would personally have Rettalick,Whitelock and Maro ahead of AWJ in this year's world XV. Eben Etzebeth, but he's been pretty ordinary in a poor Springbok team. AWJ's form this year for Wales has also been pretty ordinary. I think Launchbury and Kruis have played better than AWJ this year, so would only have AWJ about about joint 6th in the pecking order if we're talking about form locks to choose in a world XV in 2016.

 

[valley commando]

As far as yesterdays starters, apart from Tips, Melon, AWJ, 1/2p and Biggar we were average at best, as far as the Lions go all 5 of them will go to NZ. Sam D who needs to start in the 6 nations has the x factor and given game time as a starter can prove to be the best 10 in the NH, Keelan Giles can also get on the plane to NZ if Howler has the sense to pick him.
The greatest pity is that we didn't get stuffed by SA, had we then the nice Mr Davies and his wonderful committee may have had know choice but to remove the wonderfully fantastic and extremely perceptive Mr Howley from his position (Gilfach Goch 3rds are looking for a coach I'm sure they'd interview him, whether he would be suitably qualified I'm not sure)
I would imagine that we will be subject to the same short sighted selection policies come the 6 nations, hang on, have I inadvertently stumbled on the solution to our 'Woes in Wales' -: Mr Howley may just be short sighted, we could be a trip to speck savers away from a Grand Slam.

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Would personally have Rettalick,Whitelock and Maro ahead of AWJ in this year's world XV. Eben Etzebeth, but he's been pretty ordinary in a poor Springbok team. AWJ's form this year for Wales has also been pretty ordinary. I think Launchbury and Kruis have played better than AWJ this year, so would only have AWJ about about joint 6th in the pecking order if we're talking about form locks to choose in a world XV in 2016.

You are wrong AWJ's form has never been ordinary and this year together with Tips, Melon been a shining light amongst an otherwise average 8.

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Would personally have Rettalick,Whitelock and Maro ahead of AWJ in this year's world XV. Eben Etzebeth, but he's been pretty ordinary in a poor Springbok team. AWJ's form this year for Wales has also been pretty ordinary. I think Launchbury and Kruis have played better than AWJ this year, so would only have AWJ about about joint 6th in the pecking order if we're talking about form locks to choose in a world XV in 2016.

You are wrong AWJ's form has never been ordinary and this year together with Tips, Melon been a shining light amongst an otherwise average 8.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Best performance of the Autumn for Wales and yet they were still pretty poor. I hope the fact that SA were truly shocking won't gloss over yet another mediocre Wales performance.

On SA, my god, what are they doing. Most of their attacks either ended in unenforced knock one, or being stripped of the ball. Wales applied good pressure in defense, but on occasion it was first phase ball that they were butchering! Something very wrong there.

Glad to see Tips having another blinder. He looked a class above tonight. As many Welsh supporters have been calling for for years, build a damned pack around this exceptionally talented player!

Yep, I hope going forward we change the makeup of that back row, Faletau at 8, Warburton at 6 and Tipuric at 7. Far more dynamic and posing more of a threat at the breakdown. I rate Lydiate, I really do but he's a tackler only and Moriarty is really catching up on taking his place too.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

As far as yesterdays starters, apart from Tips, Melon, AWJ, 1/2p and Biggar we were average at best, as far as the Lions go all 5 of them will go to NZ. Sam D who needs to start in the 6 nations has the x factor and given game time as a starter can prove to be the best 10 in the NH, Keelan Giles can also get on the plane to NZ if Howler has the sense to pick him.


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You are wrong AWJ's form has never been ordinary and this year together with Tips, Melon been a shining light amongst an otherwise average 8.

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You are wrong AWJ's form has never been ordinary and this year together with Tips, Melon been a shining light amongst an otherwise average 8.

Seen through the eyes of an unbiased Welsh fan. AWJ has been injured on and off for Wales this year. His form taken over the whole year has not been top notch, ordinary by his standards (2013 Lions being his top level) , as has Wales. His form is not something that's really stood out compared to his rival locks this year, and so IMO doesn't warrant discussion in the world XV this year. Retallick, Whitelock and Maro Itoje have and their form this year has, which was the original discussion point.