A Political Thread

[ncurd]

He slipped up a bit at the end he should of asked how bad would deal have to be to be considered bad enough that walking away is better.

Because by reckoning it would have to be God awful.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would love to see Trump v Paxman.

(Not a paxman fan really but it would be great).

TBH would love to see trump against the British media in a election race.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I didn't see Jeremy Corbyn answering his questions from the audience, but I did see him handling Paxo pretty well.
Even when Paxo tried repetitive questioning. He has come a long way in the last few years in terms of his camera work. He doesn't get flustered and thats a far cry from many of his peers when in front of an interviewer.

I did see Teresa May answering her questions and she did better than I thought she would.
She looked very schooled. There's been a lot of mirror work.
She controlled her hands well and kept her voice even (it gets screechy when she's shouting in the house of commons) even though there was obviously an element of displeasure in the audience towards the shortage of police numbers and the dementia tax, in particular, she tried to twist every question toward a Brexit resolution.
She kept smiling through the obvious displeasure from a section of the audience and rallied when the audience brexiteers applauded her continual return to the brexit line.
Apparently only she can negotiate Brexit...

It was classic avoidance but she did it quite well, even with an obviously disgruntled nurse with her NHS question about funding cuts.
I would give her performance a 7 out of 10.
I would give 2 out 10 for her actual answers. Smoke and mirrors mostly.
Then she had a short interview with Paxman and he wasn't savage but he was dogged and at one stage she got jittery and he had her rattled, but to her credit she puled herself together and got back on to a sort of track. The lack of any costing in the Conservative manifesto made her unsteady and the questioning about her failure to get immigration anywhere near a 100,000 per annum made her visibly uncomfortable. Talking about the lack of taxation on corporations was a knockdown but she fell back on the ropes with a Brexit comeback and after a standing 8 count she sallied forth again and no more wobbles.
A 5 out of 10 for her performance with Paxman and thats not too bad considering public scrutiny of her failures and uncosted manifesto was always going to be her weak suit.
So she safely navigated the minimal television exposure without any more collateral damage than she brought with her.

It appears the older voters are very worried about how much money the conservatives are going to take away from them to help them cope with their care. Many of them are not happy about losing their heating stipend.
Younger voters are being wooed by the abolition of tuition fees.
The majority are worried about the cuts to the NHS.
However the over riding issue that May and her team of advisers have played toward, is the Brexit deal.
Thats the shining light that May is holding and whenever the many perceived flaws in her armour are highlighted, she brings forth the lance of Brexit and says"... yes thats a shame isn't it but you have to vote for me because... 'Brexit'."
That on it's own may well be enough for a solid Conservative majority.

 

[ncurd]

Actually these interviews have made me think one thing maybe May isn't the best person to conduct the Brexit deal. the u-turning shes conduicted over the past year (Paxo was brilliant at hounding her for that), coupled with Juncker leaked details and her public way of dealing with hard questions, also the lack of any plan beyond we want unicorns and rainbows make me wonder if she'll be any good in making sure we'll get what's best for this country. Corbyn despite a myriad of flaws actually feel like he knows what he'll want and go for it even if he doesn't achive it and accept it.

The no deal is better than a bad deal is great sloganeering but it utter tripe and almost completely meaningless but man it gets the Brexiteers feeling all warm and fuzzy for no reason.

 

[General Melchett]

The audience lapping up May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal' slogan was just nauseating. Paxman should have pushed her on that given that we don't really know how catastrophic 'no deal' might be. Most of the audience didn't have a clue. If Brexit brings about recession, more austerity and social unrest then I hope those who got sucked in by the Tory Brexit sound bites, UKIP and the NHS battle bus can be happy with themselves. Two very poor candidates IMO. Deep down May is actually quite weak and brittle while Corbyn doesn't have the aura and leadership qualities to be PM.

 

[j'nuh]

He slipped up a bit at the end he should of asked how bad would deal have to be to be considered bad enough that walking away is better.

Because by reckoning it would have to be God awful.

IMO he slipped up by bringing it up at all. Gave her a chance to do her low-substance chest-beating shtick. He glaringly left out the Tories' biggest weakness: public services.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520

Abbott's disease of not knowing figures of how much major policies cost seem to be catching. Now Jezza's at it.

No way JC can become PM after last night's grilling by Paxman. His answer to Paxman's question on what he would do if he was PM and his Chief of Defence came to him and told him they had a suspect in Iraq or Syria who was planning on a bombing campaign on GB, but they only had a 20 minute window to kill him in a drone attack just spoke volumes about him: indecisive on security and willing to appease terrorists. He just would not answer it, saying it was hypothetical and needed more information, even though he himself pointed out the Westminster Bridge Terrorist and also Paxman already pointed out that Jihahdi John was one such real life case and was assassinated this way. One man they zoomed in on the audience said it all: hand over mouth in disbelief. His belief that Osama Bin Landin's death was a tragedy because he felt he should have been put on trial put the final nail in the coffin.

 

[ncurd]

Actually I agree with Corbyn on Osama the evidence points to the fact he could of been taken alive with no additional loss of life. If you don't believe in the death penalty surely you have to agree extra-judicial killing of any person who can be taken alive without loss of further life should be the preferred method.

I'm not arguing in some circumstances that extra-judicial killing can be justified just in that once case I'm far from convinced it was.

If your pro death penalty I can see argument but I strongly disagree with you.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Actually I agree with Corbyn on Osama the evidence points to the fact he could of been taken alive with no additional loss of life. If you don't believe in the death penalty surely you have to agree extra-judicial killing of any person who can be taken alive without loss of further life should be the preferred method.

I'm not arguing in some circumstances that extra-judicial killing can be justified just in that once case I'm far from convinced it was.

If your pro death penalty I can see argument but I strongly disagree with you.

No way Bin Laden was ever going to be put on trial after the farce of Saddam Hussain's trial. Bin Laden and his legal team would have just dragged it out and turned it into propaganda for Al Qaeda.

JC's weakest point is security and perception that he would appease and negotiate with terrorists. Last night just reaffirmed it in my mind. I don't agree with the death penalty in principle, but there are certain exceptional cases when due process does not work - that is something I am willing to defer to a PM to carry out if this country is under threat.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The death penalty still exists in this country, just ask any terrified unarmed Brazilian electrician fleeing from undercover police oficers on the underground on their way to work. ;-)

 

[ncurd]

The death penalty still exists in this country, just ask any terrified unarmed Brazilian electrician fleeing from undercover police oficers on the underground on their way to work. ;-)

Maybe running from armed police officers isn't amongst the brightest of moves?

 

[The Jones Boy]

Maybe when they had him cornered in a tube carriage, alone and terrified and unarmed and he had nowhere to run, maybe they could have handcuffed him and asked him questions instead of murdering him, filling him with bullets at point blank range and leaving his mother without a son

 

[j'nuh]

His answer to Paxman's question on what he would do if he was PM and his Chief of Defence came to him and told him they had a suspect in Iraq or Syria who was planning on a bombing campaign on GB, but they only had a 20 minute window to kill him in a drone attack just spoke volumes about him: indecisive on security and willing to appease terrorists.

Corbyn had his weak moments in the program but I struggle to see how this was one of them. Paxman was expecting Corbyn to commit to a particular course of action without any intelligence. This is not how drone strikes work. The PM will be briefed on the situation before being asked to make a decision. Should Corbyn be expected to okay any drone strike? What if it is in a school or hospital? What if there's a chance (e.g.) Russian soldiers will get hit, sparking a major diplomatic incident?

His belief that Osama Bin Landin's death was a tragedy because he felt he should have been put on trial put the final nail in the coffin.

It's a tragedy because accounts seem to suggest that Osama was unarmed and cowering in a corner when he was shot dead. It's not Osama's fate that is tragic; it's the abandonment of international law which is tragic.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Corbyn had his weak moments in the program but I struggle to see how this was one of them. Paxman was expecting Corbyn to commit to a particular course of action without any intelligence. This is not how drone strikes work. The PM will be briefed on the situation before being asked to make a decision. Should Corbyn be expected to okay any drone strike? What if it is in a school or hospital? What if there's a chance (e.g.) Russian soldiers will get hit, sparking a major diplomatic incident?

The number of drone deaths, particularly innocent civilian deaths, has become totally unacceptable. It has spiralled into a regular event.
The men activating them are not even military.
Judge , jury and executioner with no trial. This would not be acceptable inside a western country, why is it acceptable inside someone else'?

It's a tragedy because accounts seem to suggest that Osama was unarmed and cowering in a corner when he was shot dead. It's not Osama's fate that is tragic; it's the abandonment of international law which is tragic.

Agreed.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Corbyn had his weak moments in the program but I struggle to see how this was one of them. Paxman was expecting Corbyn to commit to a particular course of action without any intelligence. This is not how drone strikes work. The PM will be briefed on the situation before being asked to make a decision. Should Corbyn be expected to okay any drone strike? What if it is in a school or hospital? What if there's a chance (e.g.) Russian soldiers will get hit, sparking a major diplomatic incident?


It's a tragedy because accounts seem to suggest that Osama was unarmed and cowering in a corner when he was shot dead. It's not Osama's fate that is tragic; it's the abandonment of international law which is tragic.

Reassurance that if pushed he would act to protect this country. That is what he failed to give. The British people needed to know he would if called upon and not his Woolly answer.

Sorry I feel no sympathy for Osama Bin Laden's death whatsoever. And it would be exactly the same if the current leader of IS was also taken out in the same way.

 

[Which Tyler]

Blindside - please be aware that the above is your opinion, and not categorical fact.

To my eyes, Corbin is right to require more information than the hypothetical gave him, and there's no way the intelligence services wouldn't be able to provide more information. If they can't give more info then there's not enough to act.

Equally to my eyes, trial is always preferable to extrajudicial killing. No it's, not buts, no maybes; it is always preferable, and what the American marines did with Osama was wrong, wrong, wrong. Of course, bringing to trial is not always possible, but it is always preferable.

 

[Gavin]

If our own governments can't abide by International Law, then what hope is there?

80 people killed and over 350 injured in a bomb blast during rush hour in Kabul. Taliban denied involvement so we must assume it is IS related.

Stuff like this really bugs me because the reports will be numerical, no names of every victim, no story about their life, no minutes silence because these events are assumed to be 'the norm'.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Reassurance that if pushed he would act to protect this country. That is what he failed to give. The British people needed to know he would if called upon and not his Woolly answer.

Sorry I feel no sympathy for Osama Bin Laden's death whatsoever. And it would be exactly the same if the current leader of IS was also taken out in the same way.

No-one is asking you to feel sympathy for Osama Bin-Laden. The point is what use is he dead to anybody other than the terrorists themselves? By most accounts he had become an irrelevance to the structure of the terrorist networks, and all his death did was bring a propaganda victory and made Americans feel a bit better, even if they are no safer for it.

I don't understand why the British people don't get that the bigger threat to our national security would be a Prime Minister who indiscriminately gives the green light to strikes which would do much more harm than good in certain circumstances. This obsession with giving stupidly ill-thought out and hypothetical scenarios and saying "WOULD YOU BOMB THEM" demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of how we came to be here and what's good for us.

Corbyn isn't the most eloquent speaker, but the other night he was trying to make the point that the seeds for the chaos and danger we find ourselves in now were sown by dangerous and unstable foreign policy from successive governments, destroying the political backbone of several countries and creating the environment for terrorist groups to thrive. And yet all people seem to care about asking is would he press a button. Tony Blair and George Bush weren't afraid of making the "tough decisions", they were willing to do what it takes to protect their country. Did that translate into greater safety for British and American citizens? LOL. The entire narrative of political leadership needs to change drastically. People care about "Prime Minister material" and "making tough decisions" even if they are the wrong decisions; it doesn't matter that David Cameron and Theresa May have ****** all our public services because apparently they're prime minister material and are prepared to make the tough choices. Meanwhile Corbyn isn't consider electable because he asks too many sensible questions. I so want Britain to move away from this understanding of a good leader as being one who embodies Reagan-esque machoism at the expense of what's actually important.

And to be clear, I'm not a massive Corbyn fan, but some of the criticism of him is really really ******* stupid.

 

[ncurd]

It really is surreal at the moment.

If you don't think the sun shines out of his backside and suggest things like his connections to the IRA are a little uncomfortable for most British people. The lack of any evidence he contributed at all to the peace process or even tried to convince them to disarm is massively disturbing. You'll get jumped on by Corbyn fanboys.

If you suggest he might not fuel the flames of radicalisation because he'll take a considered judgement before bombing someone (personally I don't think he'll do it even when needed to) suddenly your a Corbyn fanboy.


Heaven dorbid anyone have nuanced opinion. Apart from Tories planning to put the 'n' in 'cuts' .

 

[ncurd]

Corbyn is literally about to announce he's taking part in tonight's TV debate.......the next 7 hours for May will be incredibly interesting.