1st TEST: South Africa v Lions

[shtove]

Has one player ever cost his team so much? Vickery is to blame for that loss. Simple as.

If the Lions had their scrum platform in the first half they would have won comfortably. Keeping him on past 30mins was monumental stupidity. Can anyone link to Rowntree's interview after last Saturday when he basically said Vickery was first name on the teamsheet. ******.

Lack of a cross kick from Jones can't be allowed for the rest of the series.

Apart from the rolling maul after half time, SA were the inferior team. They had the edge in the lineout, but overall their skills are a level below the Lions. Spies had a nothing game. And their midfield isn't even on the same pitch as BOD/Roberts.

The subs didn't help SA, but they've got much bigger problems than that.

Oh yeah. I know they won! But still - unfrickinbelievable.

 

[best_fullback]

Well, Vickery well and truly had his pants pulled down then didn't he? Probably one of the most destructive performances I have seen by the Boks in the first half.

As soon as Adam Jones came on though the scrum looked so much more secure. Like O'Connell said after the game, it was the penalties that killed us, and if it wasn't for such a bad scrum we wouldn't have given so many away.

There was one point when it was literally scrum, collapse, penalty, 3 points, kick off, kick, knock on, scrum, collapse, penalty, 3 points.

Brilliant comeback in the 2nd half though, even with all the Bok players substituted. Thought we were just gonna do it in the end but it wasn't to be.

Well done Boks, great game. Think it will be a lot closer second test. I can't wait!

 

[Olyy]

Felt for sure we'd get that try at the end, but good performance by SA
I'm just glad we managed to pull back to within 5 points tbh, last 15mins or so was cracking to watch
If vickery gets another test jersey then there's something wrong with the world, as said above, he lost us that match. Pity murray's gone home, as it means vickerys almost definatley going to be on the bench in the next tests

Roll on next weekend, hopefully this will incense the lions to get revenge

 

[Sir Speedy]

shtove is correct. Take Vickery away from the game and that's 12 points lesser South Africa.

Not-so-Monye-in-the-bank cost us three tries.

Roberts is world class. De Villiers who? Best centre combination in the world.

All Welsh front row next week. ROG at 10. Williams over Wallace.

Oh, Croft took his tries well.

EDIT: Forgot, Fitzgerald over Monye too.

 

[An Tarbh]

Jones needs to work on his kicking no doubt but he can get the backrow moving far better than O'Gara will, you couldn't really argue with starting the team that finished the last 20 minutes but there's still huge problems with discipline.

It's easy to cite Vickery and he did get a doing but Rees punching/slapping Smit was pure stupid especially given that it was a scrum on the 22. Croft also gave away a number of penalties, it's all well and good finishing off the tries but his discipline should be better than that.

Will be interesting to see does he bring in Fitzgerland for Monye and Williams for Wallace. Obviously A Jones will start as well and whether Byrne will be in contention as well.

 

[Jer1cho]

We kicked too much ball away, which was stupid. Not one ball EVER went to our wingers. Lions used their ball better. I think its idiotic of some of you to say that your players are far superior to ours. Bullshit. We had no warm up games, and came straight into a match against the best players from 4 different countries. Of course your combinations would be better on the day. Our coach is the biggest culprit, and vickery did lose this game for you. Next week will be different. Also, francois steyn had a fantastic game. Screw all you haters. Still, we will take the win. Can only get better from here.

 

[Olyy]

I don't think it was really monyes fault with those tries (the first at least), he can't really help being tackled
Though having said that, i wouldn't be surprised to see fitzgerald starting over him

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jun 21 2009, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It's easy to cite Vickery and he did get a doing but Rees punching/slapping Smit was pure stupid especially given that it was a scrum on the 22. Croft also gave away a number of penalties, it's all well and good finishing off the tries but his discipline should be better than that.[/b]

Penalty concessions are only half the point. If you have a midfield that's like a hot knife through butter, you just get the ball to them toot sweet off the set piece and repeat for eighty minutes, with Phillips going through the middle every so often to keep the backrow honest.

The Lions crossed the try line six or seven times. With a decent scrum, they'd have been in double figures.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jun 20 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jun 21 2009, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's easy to cite Vickery and he did get a doing but Rees punching/slapping Smit was pure stupid especially given that it was a scrum on the 22. Croft also gave away a number of penalties, it's all well and good finishing off the tries but his discipline should be better than that.[/b]

Penalty concessions are only half the point. If you have a midfield that's like a hot knife through butter, you just get the ball to them toot sweet off the set piece and repeat for eighty minutes, with Phillips going through the middle every so often to keep the backrow honest.

The Lions crossed the try line six or seven times. With a decent scrum, they'd have been in double figures.
[/b][/quote]

yes but there's other areas that cost us, had Jones got his kicks, we could have been looking at 13-13 in the first half, had Croft tackled properly we well could have had the lead, it's fine margins and I know it's ifs and buts, but ones which went against us and had nothing to do with Vickery, with Murray ruled out it was hard to argue against him starting but you've also got to point the finger at Rowntree for the work he put in.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jun 21 2009, 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

you've also got to point the finger at Rowntree for the work he put in.[/b]

What you said!

And Gatland - didn't it occur to him to get Knickery out of there ASAP?

I. Am. Angry.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jun 20 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We kicked too much ball away, which was stupid. Not one ball EVER went to our wingers. Lions used their ball better. I think its idiotic of some of you to say that your players are far superior to ours. Bullshit. We had no warm up games, and came straight into a match against the best players from 4 different countries. Of course your combinations would be better on the day. Our coach is the biggest culprit, and vickery did lose this game for you. Next week will be different. Also, francois steyn had a fantastic game. Screw all you haters. Still, we will take the win. Can only get better from here.[/b]

Eh? Lack of gametime didn't enter into it. You were the better side for 55 minutes, then got complacent. We should have won it; chance missed due to not dealing with the cracks when they appeared. Ah well. Bodes well for the second test.

Forgot to point out that the game in general was immense.

 

[Hall]

What did I say? Adam Jones should have started.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hall @ Jun 20 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What did I say? Adam Jones should have started.[/b]

Yeh. I'm dreading the arrival of Cymro into the thread.

 

[MunsterMan]

Teh Mite will rip the **** out of Vickery too, and rightly so.

Rees, Jones, DOC and Fitz start next week, 50/50 between Wally and Williams as well as ROG and Jones.

 

[Steve-o]

We'll take that win thank you.

Boks were fantastic 1st half and PdV tried his best to mess it up with all those subs in the 2nd half. What was the man thinking? A lot of those players didn't need to come off.
I thought Brussow was great today, took his try well. Impressive rolling mauls from the Boks. Fourie HAS to be ahead of Jacobs next week, Jacobs doesn't look 100% fit. Pienaar was immense, he's been injured for months and he just hit the ground running from the start.
And the BEAST!!! What a game he had. Jenkins who?

 

[dullonien]

Agree with most that's been said on this thread. That's the worst display at scrumtime I've ever witnessed from Vickery, wtf happened? First scrum Adam Jones had he pushed Beast back 5m!! Front row for next week has to be Jenkins, Rees, Jones as apart from that stupid attempted punch from Rees they all looked very good. I think Williams will come in for Wallace. Although Wallace didn't do anything wrong, Williams looked a bit sharper ruck time (though pack was going forward by that point). heaslip had a poor game by his standards, hardly noticed him (didn't notice Spies either lol), still by far the better option over Powell for next week though.

Phillips had a good game, went for that try when it was a stretch too far, but other that that he was very good. Jones was also good apart from that missed penalty (the first one he missed was understandable). I don't agree with Sthove waying that his lack of cross field kick was unforgivable. We did not need to kick ball away when we had Roberts destroying them in the centre!!! That bring me to the centres, who were superb. Roberts was the best Lions player by a mile, what a player he's becoming, DeVillers ha! O'Driscoll was guilty of kicking the ball a couple times too many, but overall he was also superb. Wings were a mixed bag. Monye did nothing wrong really as both tries he missed were down to superb defensive efforts from the Boks, but Bowe was a letdown considering the form he's been in. Burne (who was aparently injured before starting?) wasn't great, but Kearney was again superb after coming on. Great under the high ball (as always) and some booming kicks. Wouldn't be surprised to see him start next week.

The second half display from the Lions should give them confidence to turn things around next week, even at altitude. With a stable platform up front that game would have been conpletely different, not to mention the three missed tries! Great game though, and congrats to SA, it was an excellent display from the Boks for 50min.

Originally posted by Steve-0
And the BEAST!!! What a game he had. Jenkins who?

He was against Vickery though <_<

 

[Sir Speedy]

Disagree with your analysis on Monye. You can argue that the SA defence was very good, but all he needed to do was dive sooner. Worked against Province. Also failed to get the ball out wide when there was an overlap 5 metres from the tryline. Both wingers were poor, though I'd like to think we'll see more attacking play from the wings next week. Bowe came into the attacking line more towards the end. More of that next week, as we can't rely on JR and GOD all the time.

I must add the 3rd match official made me cringe.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 20 2009, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Originally posted by Steve-0
And the BEAST!!! What a game he had. Jenkins who?

He was against Vickery though <_<
[/b]

I know he was scruming against Vickery, who he demolished but you expect a player who get as much praise as Jenkins to destroy a hooker who pretending to be a tighthead. Credit to Smit though, he was solid.

On Monye's two botched tries. Naas Botha correctly pointed out that Monye had the ball in the wrong hand on both occasions. A left winger needs to protect the ball by tucking it under his left arm, not his right. Does he play right wing for his club BTW?

Oh I forgot to mention that Steyn had a good game. He really took the responsibilty well and looked at home for a guy who hasn't at started 15 in years. Byrne who? :lol:

 

[dullonien]

Fair enough, but Jenkins isn't renowned as one of the best props in the world because of his scrummaging. He's solid enough (although it's always hard when the other side is going backwards at the rate it was today), but as you already know, it's his work in the loose thats just amazing. Didn't he make a cover tackle on Habana today?

Steyn did look ok, certainly has a big boot, but he was shite under the high ball. He dropped 2 out of 2 when he was put under any kinda pressure, not good if his future lies at 15!

 

[MunsterMan]

Monye having the ball ripped from him over the try line x2
Jones missed penalty x2
Phillips knock on over the try line

A possible 27 points there, we really left this one behind us.

What about the referee? How many penalties did SA give away in the "red zone" in the second half?