2011 RWC- Pool B

[Teh Mite]

Only a fool writes the Welsh off though. Of all the teams in that pool in terminal decline, it's more likely that South Africa could be the shock early-exits then the Welsh (based on recent form).

 

[Thingimubob]

Gotta say that Wales have been unlucky with their pool, they;ve gotta face the world champions as well as 2 Island nations who both have a history of knocking us out of world cups... Not good.
Personally I think we can beat both Fiji and Samoa easily enough, we're a far more organised and(even if we have hit a rough patch) confident team than we were back in '07. Still, it's the world cup and anything can happen so I'm sure Fiji and Samoa will be well up for it, and will be gunning for yet more upsets against Wales. What I am worried about is injuries, we've been drawn with some of the toughest and most physical teams in World Rugby, and I a worried that many players will go through the pool stages with injuries...
Pool B looks very interesting anyway, on their day any of the 3 tier 1 Nations can beat the other imo, could prove to be a very interesting pool to watch.

 

[ranger]

I wouldn't say we will easily beat them! Even now I'm extremely worried that we aren't going to make it out of our group.

Yeah the big three Pasific Island nations are the most underrated teams in world rugby imo. You just have to look at the number of brown faces kicking around in the worlds top competitions to see that they have some talent. They never get their top players released between WCs, so at the end of year tests people see the 4th string Samoan team filled with amatures straight out of Apia and think "Nah these guys have got nothing" and their IRB ranking plummets.
Then the world cup rolls around, the Island teams get all their players released and a few fringe all black players declare allegiance to the island teams when they realise they will miss out on the NZ team, All of a sudden the Islanders are hot **** and everyone calls them the "Suprise of the tournament", then quickly write them off at the end of it and declare them the suprise of the tournament again years later.. its ridiculous.

In 1991 the Samoans beat Wales, thrashed Argentina 6 tries to 1, and then lost to the eventual winners Australia by a mere 6 points. The All Blacks got done by 10.

In 1995 a weak Samoan side without a reliable goalkicker handed out trashings to Italy and Argentina, before poor crashing out to eventual winners South Africa in the quarters

In 1999 the Samoans were still without a goalkicker, they had to attempt to win their games by scoring tries, they managed to do this against Japan, but then lost to Argentina after they slotted 8(!) penalties, They then took on Wales again, burning them 5 tries to 3. Only Neil Jenkins boot kept them in the game, Wales still lost however.

Then they got stuck with England and South Africa in the same pool for 2 tournaments in a row, next year will be the third tournament where they have to take SA out to get the number 1 seed. They had some awesome squads then but being stuck in the the pool as the world cup winner twice made them look like a worse team than they really were.

Anyway the moral of this long winded story; The boyo up there that predicted easy victories against Samoa and Fiji team could be made to look very foolish, the Island teams that turn up to the world cup are not the same outfit that plays their test matches.

 

[munstermuffin]

I kno ROG won't start at 10 feic but Ireland had problems off the field too and preperations were wrong so ROG isn't only 1 to blame but I do reckon 1 team will have a disruptive and poor WC. And at moment I keep havin South Africa pop in to my head although I'd like to think they have to much talent

 

[cyRil]

Ranger is clearly a fan of the islands and he's right. Even when they haven't had their players the last tests played against Fiji and Samoa in Cardiff finished with us scraping 11-10 and 17-14 victories; the latter of which we were ******* lucky to get away with!!
My worries are added to by the fact that we have SA first up in the group. Get a couple of knocks there, a bruising encounter against Samoa, then by the time we play Fiji again we're blowing out of our arses and it's MY NANTES NIGHTMARE 2007 RELIVED 4 YEARS ON!!!!!
I CAN'T TAKE THAT! As the final whistle approached I was lying spreadeagled on my living room floor saying 'I'm gonna be sick, I'm gonna be sick'.
NEVER AGAIN!! So boys, heed these wise words and sort it out!!!

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Ranger is clearly a fan of the islands and he's right. Even when they haven't had their players the last tests played against Fiji and Samoa in Cardiff finished with us scraping 11-10 and 17-14 victories; the latter of which we were ******* lucky to get away with!!
My worries are added to by the fact that we have SA first up in the group. Get a couple of knocks there, a bruising encounter against Samoa, then by the time we play Fiji again we're blowing out of our arses and it's MY NANTES NIGHTMARE 2007 RELIVED 4 YEARS ON!!!!!
I CAN'T TAKE THAT! As the final whistle approached I was lying spreadeagled on my living room floor saying 'I'm gonna be sick, I'm gonna be sick'.
NEVER AGAIN!! So boys, heed these wise words and sort it out!!!

That game gave me the nickname I was to have all through Uni, my coursemates would often stand outside my windo at halls and shout "FIIIJJJIII" at me

 

[Amobokoboko]

Nothing wrong with cheering for the Pacific Islands: Tonga, Samoa and Fiji can surprise any team.

 

[Shaggy]

Lads what are chances of a surprise team qualifying in 1 of the groups be it Georgia Fiji Samoa or USA etc. It'd be great for the game

Canada to beat France, and qualify 2nd in their pool behind the All Blacks ... you heard it here first folks!

 

[coonor]

I think that Scotland have gained alot of confidence and they have some talented player (fowards). I think their finish second after England but is really their last real chance for the next few world cups as there u-20s seem completely useless.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Canada to beat France, and qualify 2nd in their pool behind the All Blacks ... you heard it here first folks!

I was thinking that myself, Canada could be the dark horses of the tournament, they get better each year.
However, after looking at their group i can't see them sneaking through (i just can't see them beating NZ or France - France do have a tendancy to implode at various points in time, but i don't think Canada are quite there yet) - If they continue on the same track they're on now i think they'll have a good chance come 2015

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Canada to beat France, and qualify 2nd in their pool behind the All Blacks ... you heard it here first folks!

And all because of Ed

 

[Shaggy]

And all because of Ed

Haha ... yes Ed, the powerhouse of Canadian Rugby

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Haha ... yes Ed, the powerhouse of Rugby

There, fixed

 

[Muzzy]

Pool B

i hope argentina go through but after their poor performances against Scotland last year i think Scotland will beat them. i can't believe Argentina's top team at home still lost to scotland

Pool D

i'm a fijian supporter so i hope they'll go through but i'm mostly worried about Samoa. i think in the right conditions and with our best players both samoa and fiji can easily beat Wales, wales are pretty overrated imo. and Fiji and Samoa never get their best players, hopefully we'll field an almost full strength team for the World Cup though. Samoa are looking dangerous, they've got the likes of Fa'atonu Fili, Paul Williams, George Pise, Perenise who must have been in all black contention, their front row is quite experienced too while our front row is ****. but if fiji gets their best players like Nalaga, Bai, Delasau, Kunavore, Qera etc Fiji will be dangerous too.

 

[Shaggy]

Pool B

i hope argentina go through but after their poor performances against Scotland last year i think Scotland will beat them. i can't believe Argentina's top team at home still lost to scotland

Pool D

i'm a fijian supporter so i hope they'll go through but i'm mostly worried about Samoa. i think in the right conditions and with our best players both samoa and fiji can easily beat Wales, wales are pretty overrated imo. and Fiji and Samoa never get their best players, hopefully we'll field an almost full strength team for the World Cup though. Samoa are looking dangerous, they've got the likes of Fa'atonu Fili, Paul Williams, George Pise, Perenise who must have been in all black contention, their front row is quite experienced too while our front row is ****. but if fiji gets their best players like Nalaga, Bai, Delasau, Kunavore, Qera etc Fiji will be dangerous too.

Yes, those two pools seem to be the most competitive, but I don't think Wales are overrated though ... I wonder if Italy can get up in Pool C against Ireland and Australia

 

[Melhor Time]

First thing to keep in mind when thinking about Argentina is that not once, I repeat, never have they had their first choice team together since Rugby World Cup 2007. Thats a remarkable fact.

Scotland defeated a Pumas team in 2010 without scoring tries. One try in two tests. Rain ruined the second test which helped Scotland tremendously. Credit to them, but if the intention is to try to know the level of the two teams then June 2009 does not provide what I would call reliable conclusions. Scotland shut them down but I cannot see this occurring again. A September night in Christchurch will be a recipe for open rugby.

The players who took the field in place of Hernández, Contepomi and Bosch to play 10 and 12 vs Scotland and defeat them were amatuers. This past weekend they made the professional debuts playing for Montpellier and Stade Français Paris in the Top 14. I am talking about Santiago Fernández and Martín Rodriguez Gurruchaga. They will become better players this season and will give Argentina far more depth. Fernández played 10 and Rodriguez 12 but with Contepomi fit again Rodirguez was 15 and Fernández 12. They all did well in that match vs France.



Argentina will take 3 flyhalves to New Zealand 2011. Hernández and Contepomi will be two of them. The third will be Fernández or Marcelo Bosch who returned after 10 months off to play 15 in the win vs Montpellier on Friday. Picking a team is no simlpe task. The 1- -12 resources Argentina now have is treuly outstanding. Better than what England, France or South Africa have. And, yes, also better than Scotland.

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Le résumé du match : BO - USAP
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Hernaández, Contepomi, Fernández, Rodriguez, bosch. For me all of these guys are better than Dan Parks. Parks´s only hope is a comanding pack. Scotland, in defeating Argentina in June gave them a lesson. The formidable Pumas front row can no longer go the 80 minutes as they are aged. So, what changes were made to fix this vs France? Two props on the bench.

My selection is as follows:

1 Roncero (Stade Français, France)
2 Ledesma (Clermont, France)
3 Scelzo (Clermont, France)
4 Carizza (Biarritz, France)
5 Albacete (Toulouse, France)
6 Leguizamón (Stade Français, France)
7 Campos (Agen, France)
8 Fernández Lobbe (Toulon, France)
9 Vergallo (Toulouse, France)
10 Hernández (Racing Metro)
11 Amorisino (Leicester, England)
12 Contepomi (Toulon, France)
13 Tiesi (Stade Français, France)
14 Carballo (Bordeaux, France Pro d2)
15 Rodriguez (Stade Français)

16 Ayerza (Leicester, Eng), 17 Figallo (Montpellier, Fra), 18 Creevy (San Luis, Arg), 19 Galarza (Leinster, Irl), 20 Fessia (Córdoba, Arg), 21 Lalanne (London Irish, Eng), 22 Fernández (Montpellier) or Bosch (Biarritz)

This is a much better team than the one that defeated England in Salta in 2009 and Scotland in Edinburgh also in 2009. The back three is much more skilled and much quicker than that used at France 2007 while the forwards are much the same. I cannot see this team losing to both England and Scotland. I will be there to cheer them on. John Barclay, is outstanding as is Kelly Brown. Could Simon Taylro return from international retirement. That would be a great backrow. Still, I think Argentina and Englands backrowers are better.

Moreover, Scotland have lost Thom Evans to retirement - a huge loss. Are the Lamonts what they were? Ben Cairns is, as I see it, the only young guy to come on since Rugby World Cup 2007. Yet, he has not been used, not barely enough. Dan Parks, Mike Blair, Rory Lawson, Simon Danielli, Sean Lamont, Chris Paterson and Hugo Southwell are all likely to be in the XV or 22 but will all be over 30. Max Evans and Graham Morisson arethe exceptions. Is this a set of backs to do this business vs Argentina and England?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Wait, wait, wait. Argentina now have great 10 and 12 options? They have Hernandez, admittedly a talented player, but him aside I wouldn't be too worried if I were Scottish. Contepomi is well into his 30's by now. In my opinion it's probably for the best that he left Leinster, he'd be lucky to get his game at 10 or 12 with the likes of Sexton, D'arcy and Fitzgerald around. As is he's struggled to establish himself at Toulon, I'll accept he was injured for a large part of last season by the way.

You say that Santiago Fernández and Martín Rodriguez Gurruchaga are going to give you loads of depth at 10 and 12 but I have a fair few issues with that statement. Fernandez has been floating around for quite a few years now. It strikes me that if he was all he was made out to be he would have been signed up by now by one of the larger European clubs(he's 24 right?). The two boys have also been signed up by fairly average French teams. They won't be playing in the Heineken Cup this year and it's debatable whether they'll be starting.

On Marcelo Bosch, well the guy has two international caps. If that's the kind of 'outstanding' player who is going to make Argentina so formidable then I'd say Scotland aren't that worried.

So, in summation, I don't agree with your assessment of the Argentine 10-12 situation at all. In my opinion you have one truely exceptional player, an aging Contepomi who'll be coming off the back of a long top 14 season and has recently suffered a serious injury, two players who have only recently turned pro and a man with only two caps for his country at the age of 26. That wouldn't inspire me with confidence.

I'd also put it to you that you've seriously underrated the effectiveness of this Scottish pack. We can talk about backs and the like but if the forwards are unable to secure good, clean possession it's impossible for them to function (see Ireland vs Scotland in the Six nations). Scotland have probably the best backrow unit in the NorthernHemisphere and while Lobbe and Leguizamon are both exceptional players, I'd rate the Scottish backrow ahead of them as a unit. Their second row is more thana match for their Argentine counterparts and their front row is very forminable too. This Scotland team has recently taken scalps from Australia, Ireland and Argentina. They are a very efficant outfit and you'd dowell not to dismiss them so readily.

 

[Teh Mite]

[strike]I thought Contepomi retired from test rugby? :blink:[/strike]

EDIT: Ignore this, brainfart.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah the big three Pasific Island nations are the most underrated teams in world rugby imo. You just have to look at the number of brown faces kicking around in the worlds top competitions to see that they have some talent. They never get their top players released between WCs, so at the end of year tests people see the 4th string Samoan team filled with amatures straight out of Apia and think "Nah these guys have got nothing" and their IRB ranking plummets.
Then the world cup rolls around, the Island teams get all their players released and a few fringe all black players declare allegiance to the island teams when they realise they will miss out on the NZ team, All of a sudden the Islanders are hot **** and everyone calls them the "Suprise of the tournament", then quickly write them off at the end of it and declare them the suprise of the tournament again years later.. its ridiculous.

Another thing to consider with the three main PI teams is that the Amateur players who play at home in the Islands no longer just kick the footy around on a Saturday afternoon playing local club rugby. They are now involved in two serious iRB funded competitions, the Pacific Rugby Championship, and the Pacific Nations Cup,

The the past, those PI teams for the RWC were made up of players from Europe and Australasia with a few locals thrown in to make up the numbers. Those player no longer just make up the numbers, they are hardened up by playing a much higher level of competition than they have been used to. I would even argue that part of their success at RWC2007 was down to their experiences in the PRC and the PNC.

 

[squirrel]

bloody well said cookie