Melhor Time
Bench Player
- Joined
- May 5, 2007
- Messages
- 801
Wait, wait, wait. Argentina now have great 10 and 12 options? They have Hernandez, admittedly a talented player, but him aside I wouldn't be too worried if I were Scottish. Contepomi is well into his 30's by now. In my opinion it's probably for the best that he left Leinster, he'd be lucky to get his game at 10 or 12 with the likes of Sexton, D'arcy and Fitzgerald around. As is he's struggled to establish himself at Toulon, I'll accept he was injured for a large part of last season by the way.
Hernández is not talented, he is outstanding. He was the worlds best flyhalf at Rugby World Cup. He has been out with back problems for over 10 months now. He is set to return soon, possibly this weekend for Racing Metro Paris. He will be playing flyhalf outside a good scrumhalf, Nicolas Durand and will be under orders to play a running game. This season will help him a lot. I guarantee he will be back to his best like in 2007.
I doubt Leinster would not play Contepomi but lets not get caught up in that. At Toulon he was bought in to play 10 and 12. He missed the first half of the season to injury and when he returned played at both 10, 12 and 21. The main reason he was not a regular starter was the silly European labour rules preventing more than 2 foreigners from playing. Toulon actually wanted Contepomi to get an Italian passport.
Contepomi will be 34 come Rugby World Cup 2007. Dan Parks will be 33. If you think Contepomi is past his best or is not up to playing test rugby any longer then you need to watch Argentina vs France from June.
In an interview today with Argentine site, rugbytime.com he commented on the losses to Scotland and the win vs France. "Con Escocia jugamos mal porque tuvimos problemas para adaptarnos a las nuevas normas y no hubo mucho tiempo de preparación. Ante Francia tuvimos un juego más `fÃsico´ y se cometieron menos errores".
In English - "With Scotland we played bad because we had problems adapting to the new lase and didn´t have a lot of preperation time. Against France we had a more physical game and we made less mistakes ".
Scotland had played 5 tests in the 6N a few months earlier while Argentina had not played in seven months. Contepomi had not played a test for Argentina for 19 months. So, I cewrtainly agree with what he has to say. The losses vs Scotland did see Argentina heavily penalized and without referees who could speak Spanish. Credit to Scotland for playing well and doing what they needed to to win. A great accomplishment. However, they did not win by scoring tries and did not dominate at all. They won because Argentina played aweful rugby. No disrespect intended, but thats the way it was. Leading players did not perform.
You say that Santiago Fernández and MartÃn Rodriguez Gurruchaga are going to give you loads of depth at 10 and 12 but I have a fair few issues with that statement. Fernandez has been floating around for quite a few years now. It strikes me that if he was all he was made out to be he would have been signed up by now by one of the larger European clubs(he's 24 right?). The two boys have also been signed up by fairly average French teams. They won't be playing in the Heineken Cup this year and it's debatable whether they'll be starting.
Fernández debuted as a 22 year old vs Italy in November 2008. He was picked to give Argentina options to cover Hernández and Contepomi. He came on in the second half of that match. One week latter, he played 10 vs Ireland as both Hernández and Contepomi were ruled out as was Bosch. You can say he has been around for quite a few years now but thats not real. the guy is 24 and has landed a pro contract with an excellent club - Montpellier. He is playing 12 (as a starter) outside French flyhalf François Trinh-Duc. Two other Pumas play for the club. A pretty damn good deal for Fernández if you ask me. He had been approached in January by both the Stormers and the Western Force to play in the 2010 Super 14 but Montpellier started talks round the same time and ultimately got his signature.
MartÃn Rodriguez Gurruchaga signed for Stade Français which is his first pro contract. Obviously a club as prestigious as SF Paris see something in the guy if he can go from Rosario to Paris. He made the 22 first up which is not easy at all and is likely to be playing 15 ahead of Hugo Southwell in not too long. For a guy making his debut last November vs England, Wales and Scotland and to score all the points there must be something to this guy, and there is. he is a great fullback. He has world class potential. The fact he was able to play 12 to replace the injrued trio of Hernández-Contepomi-Bosch and do well speaks wonders for him. He won the match vs Scotland, with no experienced playmaking backs to direct him. He has ousted Agulla or the Pumas 15 shirt and did well in all 3 tests in Juen, inc the losses vs Scotland. Give him a season with SF Paris and he can only improve.
I would not call either team fairly average. SF were aweful last year but still made the Heineken Cup Quarter-Finals. Montpellier are as good as Ulster without question. Ulster make the Heineken Cup with ease as Ireland only have 4 teams.
On Marcelo Bosch, well the guy has two international caps. If that's the kind of 'outstanding' player who is going to make Argentina so formidable then I'd say Scotland aren't that worried..
This is a void argument. Bosch made his test debut as a 23 year old vs Italy in Mendoza. He played 10. He was already playing for Biarritz at this stage. He missed the Rugby World Cup as the coach opted to take Federico Todeschini to provide back up to Hernández and Contepomi. He played his next test in 2008 again vs Italy after missing the two tests vs Scotland because the French season had not finished. The final round took place on June 14 with the semi finals and final taking place on June 22 and 28. After that match he missed the November 2008 tests with injury which also saw him miss the June 2009 tests vs England. He had surgery to return for Biarritz only to then get badly injured once again. This meant he missed the November 2009 tests and June 2010 tests too. He had surgery once again and now is back playing for Biarritz.
In other words, 2 tests does not reflect on Bosch as a rugby player. Rather, it reflects on having knee and shoulder surgery.
[video=dailymotion;x2av3z]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2av3z_marcelo-bosch_sport[/video]
[video=dailymotion;xapv09]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xapv09_le-resume-du-match-bo-usap_sport#from=embed[/video]
So, in summation, I don't agree with your assessment of the Argentine 10-12 situation at all. In my opinion you have one truely exceptional player, an aging Contepomi who'll be coming off the back of a long top 14 season and has recently suffered a serious injury, two players who have only recently turned pro and a man with only two caps for his country at the age of 26. That wouldn't inspire me with confidence.
If you still think this is so let me know.
I'd also put it to you that you've seriously underrated the effectiveness of this Scottish pack. We can talk about backs and the like but if the forwards are unable to secure good, clean possession it's impossible for them to function (see Ireland vs Scotland in the Six nations). Scotland have probably the best backrow unit in the NorthernHemisphere and while Lobbe and Leguizamon are both exceptional players, I'd rate the Scottish backrow ahead of them as a unit. Their second row is more thana match for their Argentine counterparts and their front row is very forminable too. This Scotland team has recently taken scalps from Australia, Ireland and Argentina. They are a very efficant outfit and you'd dowell not to dismiss them so readily.
Without wanting to talk Scotland down I would like to point out that Albacete is the best secondrower in France and arguably the second best playing rugby after Matfield. Scelzo, Ledesma and Roncero continue to outplay French players in the Top 14 while the best loosehead prop in England in Ayerza who is also a Puma. Scotland are talented, not question there. I think they could win the Pool but doubt they will. I suspect they will lose to Argentina and to England. they did defeated Australia in 2009 but did not score a try and tackled for 60 minutes. In defeating Argentina they also failed to score tries. Same again for their draw vs England. They did well vs Wales and Ireland in the 6N, two teams with sub-par forwards. the game plan is pretty clear and I doubt either Argentina or England will lose.
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