[2014 EOYT] England v Samoa

[Every Time Ref]

Depends what you're looking at, his short one out passes are very quick and very accurate, bring the man onto the ball, he can pick an open runner well and his masked passing is pretty accurate.

Sure, he can give a decent. But he doesn't, most of the time. He might give one or two a game, the rest of the time he stands deep and shovels the ball on to someone else accompanied by any defenders which were on him. I don't care if he doesn't distribute long, neither does George Ford usually, but breaking down the defence is about continually giving pass after pass which interests the defence and gets the team moving, with the occasional killer ball mixed in. OF gives pass after pass which offer absolutely nothing, with the occasional half-decent ball mixed in. He doesn't give the good passes often enough, or spot the opportunities. It seems to me that he has made up his mind what to do before he receives the ball - so if he's decided to pass, he passes whether it's on or not. Which means, yes you get the odd pass which is the right option and looks good; but you also get a whole amount of **** shovelled down the back line.

It's a real tragedy that Eastmond chose this week to be injured, because he and Ford really know how to share the distribution duties, like a real midfield.

 

[ratsapprentice]

View attachment 3499


This needed to be done, imho honest opinion.

I have no idea what's going on in that photo....

 

[goodNumber10]

the rest of the time he stands deep and shovels the ball on to someone else accompanied by any defenders which were on him.

i don't really want to descend this into another Farrell is/isn't thread, but he really doesn't.

I don't care if he doesn't distribute long, neither does George Ford usually, but breaking down the defence is about continually giving pass after pass which interests the defence and gets the team moving, with the occasional killer ball mixed in. OF gives pass after pass which offer absolutely nothing, with the occasional half-decent ball mixed in. He doesn't give the good passes often enough, or spot the opportunities. It seems to me that he has made up his mind what to do before he receives the ball - so if he's decided to pass, he passes whether it's on or not. Which means, yes you get the odd pass which is the right option and looks good; but you also get a whole amount of **** shovelled down the back line.

Again that's really not true mate. Good 10's need good options outside them; they can only pass to a guy in space if that guy is in space, he can only play flat if the ball is quick the defence is retreating and his runners are on the gain line. Bath have runners who play like that England don't. Instead we have have forwards who get in the 10's passing line - so Farrell, and Ford, ended up sitting deep and then just distribute to a wide runner coming onto the ball on his own - contrast that to someone like Heaslip who can playmake like a 1/5 for teams like Leinster and Ireland.

He can onyl do that because he has the options and everyone is on the same wavelength - which brings us back to attack coaching.

On sitting deep, watch the SA game again, focus on the line outs and the subsequent phases - if it's off the top ball farrell always hit's the gain line himself and then hits the next out runner to get a target, on subsequent phases he'll bring it to the line but seldom has anyone running any kind of angle off him. We saw Ford suffering from the same situation when he came on, lack of options having to take the ball into contact as well, and Eastmond also suffered from it on the couple of occasion where he stepped into 10.

It's a real tragedy that Eastmond chose this week to be injured, because he and Ford really know how to share the distribution duties, like a real midfield.

They do, but i don't think KE would have been playing anyway.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I have no idea what's going on in that photo....

More inane **** posting from Ewis in an England thread. What's new?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

More inane **** posting from Ewis in an England thread. What's new?

Yeah can we please have that classified as spam please? Its plain annoying and not funny.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It just doesn't make sense though...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Beyond the implication they might look alike, I don't understand it either.

 

[Big Ewis]

:lol: okay okay, I'm done I'm done ! you guys crack me up !!!
WOOO, though, GEEEEEEEEEEZZZ !!!

England by fifty.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Beyond the implication they might look alike, I don't understand it either.

It is a rather striking resemblence though.

On topic, I see England have outscored Samoa 2 : 1 in 3 games at neutral venues and that jumps to near enough 4 : 1 at home (also 3 matches played) and have a 100% win ratio 6/6 and I can't see that change this time round so England should probably look to 'find their rhythm' in order to set themselves up for the break-even game against Aussie. Samoa are a terribly ****ly team to face though. Will all England's players be available for Aussie? I know it falls outside the IRB's test window but I'd expect the RFU have made arrangements with the AP clubs?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It is a rather striking resemblence though.

On topic, I see England have outscored Samoa 2 : 1 in 3 games at neutral venues and that jumps to near enough 4 : 1 at home (also 3 matches played) and have a 100% win ratio 6/6 and I can't see that change this time round so England should probably look to 'find their rhythm' in order to set themselves up for the break-even game against Aussie. Samoa are a terribly ****ly team to face though. Will all England's players be available for Aussie? I know it falls outside the IRB's test window but I'd expect the RFU have made arrangements with the AP clubs?

If Samoa just try to bash it through then that should suit us just fine. On the flip side I think this could be one of the least creative England sides in recent history so we could be in for a game of 2 sides just trying to pummel each other to victory.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

If Samoa just try to bash it through then that should suit us just fine. On the flip side I think this could be one of the least creative England sides in recent history so we could be in for a game of 2 sides just trying to pummel each other to victory.

A replay of last week then. TBF though I think SA's lack of spark was mostly down to England containing us well and dominating territory so we didn't take 'risks'. Though I can't deny England butchered scoring opportunities I think you are overly critical to some degree (though it's difficult not too be being invested in a team) and the same can be said in reverse; we make a lot of missed tackles and the stats back this up but our scrambling defense is close to the best in the world IMO and Samoa has been known to give up trying/ drop the intensity if a side starts getting ahead of them so a few quick points is all you really need against them. Easier said than done though.

 

[Peat]

It is a rather striking resemblence though.

On topic, I see England have outscored Samoa 2 : 1 in 3 games at neutral venues and that jumps to near enough 4 : 1 at home (also 3 matches played) and have a 100% win ratio 6/6 and I can't see that change this time round so England should probably look to 'find their rhythm' in order to set themselves up for the break-even game against Aussie. Samoa are a terribly ****ly team to face though. Will all England's players be available for Aussie? I know it falls outside the IRB's test window but I'd expect the RFU have made arrangements with the AP clubs?

Yes, England have full access, although whether everyone will be fit is a moot point at this stage.

My guess is Samoa's tight five will fail to present enough of a challenge and that will be that as a competition; everything else will be garnish, although needless to say we expect plenty.

 

[Maverick1987]

Anyway just seen the squad so glad I'm working ......

 

[Patchey]

IMO the squad has the best starting right available to England, which is good. Add Corbs and Launch to that and it's world beating.

Back line. Meh. At Least Ford gets some decent game time.

I would have started Wigflesworth over Youngs.

 

[Big Ewis]

So Fa...*snort* Farrell at 12...

No but before you get your bazookas out, I'm quite happy to see what he can do there. He's a big boy, and maybe he's not the best option at TEN right now for England, specifically at 10, because as Barnes was saying at the end of last week's game "flyhalf requires more than heart and effort", it takes good decision making, accuracy, variety...; but Farrell's still a good player and one I appreciate. Not just because he's costing England some games

but I think at 12 he can display his good defense, distribute the ball well and doesn't need to be too creative there, and has enough strength to help out center-style in the rucks or around the park generally.

 

[Every Time Ref]

i don't really want to descend this into another Farrell is/isn't thread, but he really doesn't.

Fine

Again that's really not true mate. Good 10's need good options outside them; they can only pass to a guy in space if that guy is in space, he can only play flat if the ball is quick the defence is retreating and his runners are on the gain line...Farrell, and Ford, ended up sitting deep and then just distribute to a wide runner coming onto the ball on his own

That's not entirely true. If first and second receiver are a certain distance and spacing apart and approach the line at the same speed, then when the ten releases the ball makes a huge difference to where the second receiver hits the line - and how many defenders he has on him, whether the defence has been allowed to drift. Ford fixes a defender before he gives it whereas Farrell doesn't. The only time England moved the South African defence across the pitch and back, creating an overlap on the right, was when Ford was on the field, why was that? I think it was because Ford got the line moving better, by holding defenders and thus creating space.

Bath have runners who play like that England don't

The England twelve for the last two matches has been the Bath twelve...

He can onyl do that because he has the options and everyone is on the same wavelength - which brings us back to attack coaching.

Yes I agree that it isn't only the ten's responsibility, of course a ten needs good movement to make a good pass. But equally any runner needs good movement from the ten to run off. What it comes down to is I see Farrell taking it and giving it far too deep, you see him running to the line and not having options. We are watching the same passages of play and seeing different things, so I guess agree to disagree...there's been more than enough Farrell bull**** talked in the last couple of days! And I do admire you continuing to argue your case intelligently against the tide, by the way. Fair play to you, sir.

 

[TheSaffycen]

If Farrell can learn Barritt's defensive reading than he can be a real asset at 12. Looking at Wigglesworth-Ford-Farrell-Barritt aqt least our wingers will see the ball. All of them like to put the ball through the hands, three of them have a decent kicking game. I think we will win this for a number of reasons, Samoa are good but they have had different things other than playing rugby this tour and we are just a much better forward pack. I would say a 15+ point win

 

[goodNumber10]

So actual team is:

England team in full: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Anthony Watson (Bath), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), George Ford (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Rob Webber (Bath), David Wilson (Bath), Dave Attwood (Bath), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain), Ben Morgan (Gloucester).

Replacements: Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Kieran, Brookes (Newcastle), George Kruis (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester), Marland Yarde (Harlequins).

Surprised Watson got another run, Lancaster showing faith how outdated.

link: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30119856

The key to this is Youngs; on Saturday there was far more speed on the game because of him. He was pulling his forwards onto the ball with those darts and lateral runs and that meant the forwards stopped trying to be fly halfs and just smashed into the tackle line in numbers - he just put people in gaps.

 

[TommiG88]

So actual team is:

England team in full: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Anthony Watson (Bath), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), George Ford (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Rob Webber (Bath), David Wilson (Bath), Dave Attwood (Bath), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain), Ben Morgan (Gloucester).

Replacements: Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Kieran, Brookes (Newcastle), George Kruis (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester), Marland Yarde (Harlequins).

Surprised Watson got another run, Lancaster showing faith how outdated.

link: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30119856

The key to this is Youngs; on Saturday there was far more speed on the game because of him. He was pulling his forwards onto the ball with those darts and lateral runs and that meant the forwards stopped trying to be fly halfs and just smashed into the tackle line in numbers - he just put people in gaps.

Quit the smart arse comments, Watson deserves another chance and Farrell does not.

 

[goodNumber10]

Quit the smart arse comments,

what gave it away? was it the big beside the comment?

Watson deserves another chance and Farrell does not.

why? he made a ton of mistakes, under the high ball and in attack