[2014 EOYT] England v Samoa

[TRF_Olyy]

Barritt's been good at 13 this series.
There are definitely better options, but his basics aren't "so so poor".

 

[goodNumber10]

I've noticed that Farrell and barritts basics are so so poor. In every game their basic passing and positioning is sub standard.

You're wrong.

Barritt's been good at 13 this series.
There are definitely better options, but his basics aren't "so so poor".

yep, Barritt has been ok, in a team performing way below it's level... people who think different centres will change the England performance are really missing the real issues.

 

[j'nuh]

You're wrong.

A good example of Farrell's poor passing:



Farrell doesn't even glance before passing. Brown had to slow down and stoop down to collect the ball, meaning May had to make much harder work of it than it should have been.

(To be fair, Brown also makes hard work of it too. He should have fixed the last defender and then passed to May, giving May an easier run in rather than being chased towards the corner.)

 

[goodNumber10]

here we go again.

His positioning (which was one of LS's points) is fine on that. Watch how it transpires, he's constantly adjusting and realigning off the forwards. He's actually working quite hard to get himself into a position that can keep the move alive as the passes keep getting moved on under pressure.

Additionally he gets himself inside shoulder of the Samoan 14 turning him in which actually stops him drifting out onto Brown earlier.

On the technicalities of the pass, it's a one movement pass because if you watch it from the front (below) he actually has very little time on the ball, so he gives and takes in one movement to make sure the move doesn't break down with him taking man and ball. Yes Brown has to adjust but the ball hits him and lets face facts he is very flat for the same reasons Farrell flattens up, he's also on an outside line drifting off the pass.

So for me, no major issues with that pass, (especially if you compare it to the Dagg pass to McCaw in the first game), the ball could have been spun to Brown but lets remember the ball was again wet on Saturday so soft end over pass is a decent option.



Additionally lets remember this is a lad who hasn't played 12 for a while, he's been the main 10 at his club and England for the last 3 years and, yes, he looked lost at times but to expect him to step in at 12 and be world class....... his positioning and short passing game is pretty good and if you watch the game he's running some pretty decent pre-emptive support lines from 12 - first may try a perfect example, he doesn't chase the ball he stays on his line after the pass, gets taken out by a samoan who's tracking Brown.

he's far from perfect but he's not the biggest problem England have, nor are the centers.


*awaits torrent of abuse for defending Farrell*

 

[TommiG88]

here we go again.

His positioning (which was one of LS's points) is fine on that. Watch how it transpires, he's constantly adjusting and realigning off the forwards. He's actually working quite hard to get himself into a position that can keep the move alive as the passes keep getting moved on under pressure.

Additionally he gets himself inside shoulder of the Samoan 14 turning him in which actually stops him drifting out onto Brown earlier.

On the technicalities of the pass, it's a one movement pass because if you watch it from the front (below) he actually has very little time on the ball, so he gives and takes in one movement to make sure the move doesn't break down with him taking man and ball. Yes Brown has to adjust but the ball hits him and lets face facts he is very flat for the same reasons Farrell flattens up, he's also on an outside line drifting off the pass.

So for me, no major issues with that pass, (especially if you compare it to the Dagg pass to McCaw in the first game), the ball could have been spun to Brown but lets remember the ball was again wet on Saturday so soft end over pass is a decent option.



Additionally lets remember this is a lad who hasn't played 12 for a while, he's been the main 10 at his club and England for the last 3 years and, yes, he looked lost at times but to expect him to step in at 12 and be world class....... his positioning and short passing game is pretty good and if you watch the game he's running some pretty decent pre-emptive support lines from 12 - first may try a perfect example, he doesn't chase the ball he stays on his line after the pass, gets taken out by a samoan who's tracking Brown.

he's far from perfect but he's not the biggest problem England have, nor are the centers.


*awaits torrent of abuse for defending Farrell*

Here we go again...

To be honest, he wasn't the worst player on the field this week. He was average and nothing more. Would prefer Eastmond to come back into 12 next week. SL likes a big man at 13 so I think Barrett will be starting there.

 

[goodNumber10]

Lancaster on Ford/Farrell:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30165305

Lancaster was particularly impressed by Ford, who kicked 13 points on his first start having missed out on a similar opportunity owing to an injury that kept him out of the tour to New Zealand in June.
"It was a tough, physical Samoa side to play against, but George Ford's performance was a step in the right direction for him," he said.
"He's so young as a player in international terms, but he's someone who's going to be around a long time for England.
"I though it was a great first start for him. He looked calm, he looked composed and he controlled the game well. He was incisive at line breaks.
"This means Owen's now got some genuine competition at 10 but also we've got the option of looking at Owen at 12."

Ford, 21, described his debut as "massive", and said he enjoyed playing alongside Farrell, who was moved having failed to impress in the position against New Zealand and South Africa.

"It was great to play alongside Owen. He was brilliant to have playing outside me.
"At least two of the tries came from his communication to me, so it's great to have another pair of eyes out there, another number 10 who understands the game the same as me."

I now think we'll see the same again for Australia.

 

[TommiG88]

Lancaster on Ford/Farrell:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30165305





I now think we'll see the same again for Australia.

I saw this too, it was to be expected.

 

[goodNumber10]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>George Ford talks about his first start, combining with Owen Farrell, copping big hits &amp; a special end to the match
<a href="https://t.co/wXGf0Z4M0s">https://t.co/wXGf0Z4M0s</a></p>&mdash; England Rugby (@EnglandRugby) <a href="https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/536856444918693888">November 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Peat]

Those stats are in keeping with the normal England 12's to be fair.

They're not.

Only one other 12 made one run - Eastmond in the 3rd test. Only that, the home vs NZ and Italy had the 12 making less than 20 metres. He is doing very badly in that regard. Everything else in line, but running, based on the stats, not in line at all.

 

[goodNumber10]

Oh, ok, so you're going to pick out the one stat that backs up your point?

Feel free to post all the stats for every 12 in every game for the last three years if that pleases you.

The point is that stats tell you very little if not interpreted properly waving them up as a denouncement means very little unless you present the context of the stats as well.

Regardless i don't see how after 55 minutes of rugby, out of regular position, and in a poor team he can be "Doing very poorly" compared to regular 12's who have hardly set the world on fire.

 

[McTallshort]

10.Ford
12.Eastmand
13.Burrell

But Im guessing it will be...

10.Ford
12.Farrell
13.Barrett

 

[Peat]

Oh, ok, so you're going to pick out the one stat that backs up your point?

You said something that's not true and I pointed it out. That's all on my part.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Just to add something I've literally only just noticed.... what the **** was Farrell doing on Mays first try?
he made a fantastic attempt to tackle him which almost resulted in him not getting to the line...!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've not seen any of the game but it sounds like England really didn't do well and that Wood continues to be a penalty producing machine?

Also Henry that wasn't Farrels fault, the Samoan 8 shoulder charged Farrel from behind and knocked him over.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Haha, I didn't seriously think it was his fault but when I noticed the guy appearing to ankle tap May was Farrell I thought, Wot!?

In terms of discipline I thought the yellow was a tad harsh BUT; there were a few examples of marginal tackles, and whilst the technique on the Ford tackle was pretty much ok, any situation where the leading shoulder is driving towards the neck or jaw area of the tackled player, it becomes illegal; tackler has a responsibility to get lower, even when the carrier is short. There was a first half example of a tackle on Watson which was also borderline because the shoulder was high and I felt Watson did well to recover and present the ball.

In short, I had sympathy with that card but in terms of general discipline, I'd say Samoa are often their own worst enemies. A very 'tippy' tackle on Brown too in the first half.

One other thing; Youngs' passing is truly truly terrible. He needs to rethink his career.

 

[goodNumber10]

You said something that's not true and I pointed it out. That's all on my part.

you haven't though, you've plucked one stat out of all of them and said I'm wrong because of that - you've ignored everythign else int he stats. What you're claim is also inaccurate so you might wanna go back and check you're stats on ESPN.