[2015 Super Rugby] Sharks vs. Crusaders (Round 8) 04/04/2015

[austingtir]

People aren't getting away with things as much now, certainly. I know you're a stickler for penalties or cards that don't seem that bad. Sometimes I am too. But even in the old days, 3 no arm tackles in a row? What is the referee suppose to do? And a blatant knee, which is just as bad as du Plessis' kick to the head against the Chiefs. It didn't quite connect, but he knew he was trying to get a cheap shot in. No place in the game for that.

It's really not difficult. I know the odd high tackle slips in during the heat of the moment in a match. Been there, done that myself. But this constant ****le and cheap shots off the ball, just leave it out. If you want to play like a bunch of animals, go the NRL.

Du plessis kick to the head was a bit of a nothing other than the fact that it was a kick to the head there was hardly even any connection to it just like this knee. These offences are yellow cards not reds imo.


I just honestly dont see what was wrong with how it was officiated a few years ago. The first one or two shoulder charges would of been penaltys and then the yellow.... What was wrong with that?? I just dont get it.

Eventually we will have a game thats so sanitised it wont even be worth watching.

Soon the only difference between union and league will be at every breakdown in union we have a mass of bodies strewn all over the place and we just start again. That is where this is headed.

I honestly think they should be going the opposite way they are going atm.... Bring back constructive rucking where you can push back with the foot to remove players from the ruck area. There is nothing wrong with this as long as its not illegal by stamping on players heads and necks.

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[TRF Mr Fish]

Du plessis kick to the head was a bit of a nothing other than the fact that it was a kick to the head there was hardly even any connection to it just like this knee. These offences are yellow cards not reds imo.


I just honestly dont see what was wrong with how it was officiated a few years ago. The first one or two shoulder charges would of been penaltys and then the yellow.... What was wrong with that?? I just dont get it.

Eventually we will have a game thats so sanitised it wont even be worth watching.

Soon the only difference between union and league will be at every breakdown in union we have a mass of bodies strewn all over the place and we just start again. That is where this is headed.

I honestly think they should be going the opposite way they are going atm.... Bring back constructive rucking where you can push back with the foot to remove players from the ruck area. There is nothing wrong with this as long as its not illegal by stamping on players heads and necks.

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You've gotta be joking me? If think that shoving the bottom of your boot (one which is covered in metal studs) into someone's face is not a red card offence then you have serious issues.

 

[MotherRucker1]

Agree to disagree I guess then. The only thing I would say is whether something did connect, or almost connect shouldn't be relevant. If you're reigning down a boot or knee on someone then you don't deserve to be on the same field as the guys who play by the rules. Regardless of whether it got him, almost got him, you managed not to get seen and be sneaky, etc.

 

[austingtir]

You've gotta be joking me? If think that shoving the bottom of your boot (one which is covered in metal studs) into someone's face is not a red card offence then you have serious issues.

No not kidding at all the other player ran off like nothing happened. Now if you really got a kick to the face with a metal studed boot I doubt you'd just run off like nothing happened.

It was a nothing kick to the head its was stupid yes and deserved some sort of penalty. A red card is just OTT for me. If we get to the WC final and some player is sent off for the entire match over something like this I can tell you there is likely to be riots going on.

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Agree to disagree I guess then. The only thing I would say is whether something did connect, or almost connect shouldn't be relevant. If you're reigning down a boot or knee on someone then you don't deserve to be on the same field as the guys who play by the rules. Regardless of whether it got him, almost got him, you managed not to get seen and be sneaky, etc.

Its funny how the game managed for 90+ years working like that then isnt it? Whats changed the players or the game?

 

[MotherRucker1]

The game is professional now. Or meant to be. I think a large part of it is finally cracking down on some of the ****le that we've seen for years in order to encourage more people to play it, more parent's to get their kids into it, etc. Make it marketable. Older people, or adults like you or me might like a bit of it. And we should still be able to have hard hitting tackles that include arms, etc. Brutal defense is fine, as long as a tackle isn't made 5 seconds after the ball has been passed. But the old days of giving someone a bop on the nose or something at the bottom of a ruck to get even are over. For better or worse.

 

[austingtir]

The game is professional now. Or meant to be. I think a large part of it is finally cracking down on some of the ****le that we've seen for years in order to encourage more people to play it, more parent's to get their kids into it, etc. Make it marketable. Older people, or adults like you or me might like a bit of it. And we should still be able to have hard hitting tackles that include arms, etc. Brutal defense is fine, as long as a tackle isn't made 5 seconds after the ball has been passed. But the old days of giving someone a bop on the nose or something at the bottom of a ruck to get even are over. For better or worse.

The Refs they need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the professional age but that doesnt mean they need to be pedantic..... The thing is I have some sympathy for them as you see many of them hanging up the boots kinda early which tells me they are probably making more money doing other stuff than refereeing major games which is not entirely fair.

I just dont see how giving out as many yellows or reds as possible in a match is achieving much of anything other than wrecking games.

 

[nickdnz]

austingtir, I have no idea why you watch rugby.

I think what you're looking for is UFC fighting.

Either way complaining week in and week out that incidents of foul play being penalized is proof the game has gone soft and unenjoyable, followed by "back in the good old day guys could take a switch blade on the field and no one battered an eye lid" grows f*cking old.

 

[smartcooky]

Foul play resulting in feet, fists or arms intentionally making contact with the head is red card all day, every day, every time, and long may it continue to be so. Fail to punish it and this becomes tacit approval to carry on in the same way. The result of that will be escalation.

Last week we saw Bismarck du Plessis jam his sprigs into an opponent's face, Hika Elliott deliver a cheap-shot forearm to an opponent's head, and Frans Steyn drive an opponent head first into the ground. This week we see Jean Deysel dropping he knee into a prone players' head. Acts like this have no part in the Game of Rugby Union, and the day they are not red card offences because they are "part of the game" is the day the game and I part company.

 

[Tony Manx]

Foul play resulting in feet, fists or arms intentionally making contact with the head is red card all day, every day, every time, and long may it continue to be so. Fail to punish it and this becomes tacit approval to carry on in the same way. The result of that will be escalation.

Last week we saw Bismarck du Plessis jam his sprigs into an opponent's face, Hika Elliott deliver a cheap-shot forearm to an opponent's head, and Frans Steyn drive an opponent head first into the ground. This week we see Jean Deysel dropping he knee into a prone players' head. Acts like this have no part in the Game of Rugby Union, and the day they are not red card offences because they are "part of the game" is the day the game and I part company.

See Clermont v Northampton match when the Saints prop retaliated for being late hit on scoring a try with a punch to the head a straight arm across the face and then the neck..............not even a penalty never mind a card which should have been red!!

 

[austingtir]

austingtir, I have no idea why you watch rugby.

I think what you're looking for is UFC fighting.

Either way complaining week in and week out that incidents of foul play being penalized is proof the game has gone soft and unenjoyable, followed by "back in the good old day guys could take a switch blade on the field and no one battered an eye lid" grows f*cking old.

This is the sort of PC reply id expect from you.

I hope the players continue to do what they are doing because you can see it in their faces that its just ridiculous how the game is being officiated.

And to clarify im talking about the shoulder charges and minor ****les not trying to remove peoples head or anything like that.

 

[willin1]

Deysel's deliberate knee had the potential to cause significant permanent damage and austingtir says it okay????!!!!!

Either he's trolling or he's as big a brainless ******** as Deysel is.

 

[austingtir]

Deysel's deliberate knee had the potential to cause significant permanent damage and austingtir says it okay????!!!!!

Either he's trolling or he's as big a brainless ******** as Deysel is.

What a load of crap he barely even touched the guy. A tickle up is about all it was because the saders player was holding onto the ball! Im not justifying just saying what is fact. Anyway I have watched all the cards again and heres my opinion on them and I dont give a rats what anyone else on here thinks or what the current rules actually are.


The main issue I have with these tackle yellows is there is only one infringement which is the lack of arms wrapping the player. This to me is a dubious yellow offence and imo it should require another offence to make it a certain yellow like a late charge, repeated offences by same player or trying to take someones head off aswell. This should constitute dangerous play and be a yellow or red depending on severity.

The first yellow. No arms that all there was to it. By the rules this is a yellow and probably fair enough. This is probably the only one I semi agree with. I just think the game is going soft thats all.

The second yellow. No arms pretty much all there was to it it might of been riding high aswell but it was just a bump off tackle and not a huge collision really no harm done. This imo is just a penalty and a player warning.

Nadolo Kicking the ball away was an absolute nothing and had no affect on play whatsoever. The ref just needed to put his whistle away and give Nodolo a warning.

The Red card should of been a reversed penalty to the Crusaders nothing much in it even if the bleeding hearts on here think its the end of the world. Also notice how the ball came spilling out instantly when the knee was applied.... Just give more reason to bring back rucking imo.


Also before the second yellow the refs missed another late and no arms-ish tackle on the sharks winger. I wonder if this contributed to them calling the second one up or if they even noticed it.... I just felt like the Crusaders were well up for this and intent on putting in stinging hits with the Sharks players continuing to basically just wander into these hits they were getting whats coming to them really.

Let the nashing of teeth begin...

 

[MotherRucker1]

I don't see why everyone else is a bleeding heart softie just because they don't agree mate. I'm the most one eyed Saders fan you'll find, and even I acknowledge Laulala's hit was dangerous and unnecessary, and for Codie Taylor to do the same thing awhile later after the first yellow is straight out stupid, and probably lack of experience and calm. Again, cards are put in place to deter a nasty end result. Whether a hit "got him" or "almost got him" doesn't come into it. Same reason we wear seat belts, we want to prevent an outcome.

Best thing is just to move on I guess. Plenty more rounds to get fired up over!

 

[smartcooky]

Jean Deysel has been suspended for seven weeks (6 matches)

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/jean-deysel-banned-for-seven-weeks/

The breach of Law 10.4 (a) required a mid-range entry point which carries an eight-week suspension."I added an additional week for Deysel's recent offending as an aggravating factor. He was suspended for three weeks for foul play last Super Rugby season. I then addressed mitigating personal circumstances and the discount available for an admitted breach, not that there was any defence for his actions.
"Deysel, to his credit, did not seek to minimise his actions. He said he was deeply ashamed and that his actions were against everything he stands for, despite his earlier breaches. He could only refer to his emotional and irrational response when frustrated at the breakdown, and he asked himself why he acted in such an extreme manner.

"After my preliminary considerations, I was advised of an off-field mitigating circumstance which may in rare circumstances be brought to account under Regulation 17. In this case, there are truly exceptional circumstances associated with the health of his immediate family which must bear on his state of mind, and go some way to explain his irrational actions. This is not an excuse but a basis to exercise some small leniency in the sanction applied.
"A discount was applied due to these mitigating factors. I took into account that the Sharks have a bye in Round 11, in effect making this a six-match sanction.

I'm waiting for @austingtir to explode shortly

 

[Icemn]

Du plessis kick to the head was a bit of a nothing other than the fact that it was a kick to the head there was hardly even any connection to it just like this knee. These offences are yellow cards not reds imo.

dafuq are you smoking?

is a knee to the head part of the game? let me rephrase... that is not just a knee to the head... a simple knee to the head might be yellow... that was plain dangerous... he fell with his entire body weight with his knee onto the neck/head of todd... that is malicious ***** right there... please go look at the incident again... oh ya, he got a 7week ban...

these reds are needed to also teach the kids to not try this...

 

[SomeOke]

The real issue isn't whether any of these offences were worthy of their punishments because they clearly were, which I doubt any Sharks fans even dispute. The real issue is what is going on with the Sharks as a Union.

Deysel out for 7 weeks, Bismarck out for 4, Steyn out for 5, these are senior players in the squad who should really know better. With Lambie out as well for the next 6 weeks I can't help but worry about the Sharks in the short term (although maybe letting the youngsters show what they can do will be beneficial).

In the long term it's quite clear that John Smit and Gary Gold are not working out, the last time the Sharks were playing decent rugby was under Plumtree and I know a lot of Sharks who hated his era.

This represents the nepotism in place with the old guard of coaches in the South African unions (Meyer being the exception), being too stuck in their ways. I feel we need a major shake up.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Sorry but the Sharks are becoming a disgrace to SA rugby
The are playing dirty rugby mixed with UK rejects and directionless youngsters

 

[MotherRucker1]

The real issue isn't whether any of these offences were worthy of their punishments because they clearly were, which I doubt any Sharks fans even dispute. The real issue is what is going on with the Sharks as a Union.

Deysel out for 7 weeks, Bismarck out for 4, Steyn out for 5, these are senior players in the squad who should really know better. With Lambie out as well for the next 6 weeks I can't help but worry about the Sharks in the short term (although maybe letting the youngsters show what they can do will be beneficial).

In the long term it's quite clear that John Smit and Gary Gold are not working out, the last time the Sharks were playing decent rugby was under Plumtree and I know a lot of Sharks who hated his era.

This represents the nepotism in place with the old guard of coaches in the South African unions (Meyer being the exception), being too stuck in their ways. I feel we need a major shake up.

Interesting post. Why did they hate his era? Because he was a Kiwi? He's always been a good coach. I refuse to believe the reason the Canes are doing well this year is thanks to Boyd. Under Boyd the Wellington provincial team had some shocking results. They hit some late form in 2014 anyway, and looks like Pulmtree has carried it on with them.

Do you see anyone who can step up in their absence? I was skeptical about Nepolaula playing against the Sharks, and also Codie Taylor. Not because they are known for performing late shoulder charges, but they are raw, inexperienced, and nowhere near the level of Owen Franks. I guess what I'm asking is there any young guy in their absence who you're confident could step up to the mark, or might they struggle?

7 weeks is a long time. And I realize that knee didn't quite connect. But even if it were one of our own, I'd still be saying that the ban is justified. When you try to reign your limb down on somebody in order to hurt them, that's when rugby isn't worth my time as a viewer. And to be fair I was also pretty furious at our guys for doing stupid stuff and wouldn't mind if they missed a week or so.

 

[SomeOke]

Interesting post. Why did they hate his era? Because he was a Kiwi? He's always been a good coach. I refuse to believe the reason the Canes are doing well this year is thanks to Boyd. Under Boyd the Wellington provincial team had some shocking results. They hit some late form in 2014 anyway, and looks like Pulmtree has carried it on with them.

Do you see anyone who can step up in their absence? I was skeptical about Nepolaula playing against the Sharks, and also Codie Taylor. Not because they are known for performing late shoulder charges, but they are raw, inexperienced, and nowhere near the level of Owen Franks. I guess what I'm asking is there any young guy in their absence who you're confident could step up to the mark, or might they struggle?

7 weeks is a long time. And I realize that knee didn't quite connect. But even if it were one of our own, I'd still be saying that the ban is justified. When you try to reign your limb down on somebody in order to hurt them, that's when rugby isn't worth my time as a viewer. And to be fair I was also pretty furious at our guys for doing stupid stuff and wouldn't mind if they missed a week or so.

I personally had no problem with Plumtree and would have no problem with a Kiwi taking over for the Stormers either, but there were mutterings from Sharks fans at the time, a lot of it was centered around the fact that he kept playing Lambie at Fullback and switching Michilak around but it may have been bias against a Kiwi coach (although I don't think so). You'd have to ask a Sharks fan, I remember a couple of my mates and some forum guys (Draggs? Zeke?) not liking him at the time.