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[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs Scotland (12/03/2017)

I heard the work experience boy that put the caption on screen was actually Scottish.

(This may or may not be true, but it could be so . . .)

#fakenews
 
To be honest there's not much point in defending ITV - it's horse****

Not defending anything but there is a tendency to look of things to be offended by. Which is fine if you have a pair of balls and don't let it bother you but obviously some people are little lambs and need protection against Nasty, hurtful, true captions on ITV.
 
Didn't every English / Scottish pndit get a caption with how many times they'd played this fixture, and how many they'd won?

If my memory is right (and I've no intion of sitting through all that again just to find out) then it's entirely consistent, and only offensive to Freight because he keeps losing.
 
I don't wish to be dramatic but I think he was pretty terrible. I have to wonder what the game would have looked like had he been more balanced at the breakdown. But I agree that he could be fine with more games under his belt.

I did say before the game about his wrong decision making to give a lineout against Wasps after time, but I was told that he was still a decent ref..

His performance on Saturday was poor IMO and as you say he needs more games at a lower level before being considered for internationals again.
 
Is there any chance Hartley could be playing for his future in the team next week? By the sounds of things you have better playing options behind him!

I mean a lose and you're out job??
 
Is there any chance Hartley could be playing for his future in the team next week? By the sounds of things you have better playing options behind him!

I mean a lose and you're out job??

TBH I don't think the result of the Ireland game will have any bearing on Hartley's England future.
 
Is there any chance Hartley could be playing for his future in the team next week? By the sounds of things you have better playing options behind him!

I mean a lose and you're out job??

Hartley will survive as captain either way. Jamie George is certainly a better player but Hartley is Jones' man and his experience probably puts him as our no.2 option in my eyes so he'll stay. Until atleast next 6n. Ironically I can see a failure to make the lions actually helping his England captaincy chances as no one will have a chance to fill in in his absence. A strange one that! Slightly off topic, but Hartley and Farrell both make the lions who will captain in the summer. Billy and Brown are the vice captains but both may well tour and if brown doesn't is he actually caption material? Haskell maybe? Launch?(again if he doesn't tour), robshaw? (Is that even tenable?)

It could be a great opportunity to develop a new leadership group, but as I said maybe not great for Hartley!

Edit - thinking about it, it's quite likely to be who doesn't make it out of youngs and care due to experience, but if Eddie wants to develop a new SH or two it could be interesting!
 
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Hartley will survive as captain either way. Jamie George is certainly a better player but Hartley is Jones' man and his experience probably puts him as our no.2 option in my eyes so he'll stay. Until atleast next 6n. Ironically I can see a failure to make the lions actually helping his England captaincy chances as no one will have a chance to fill in in his absence. A strange one that! Slightly off topic, but Hartley and Farrell both make the lions who will captain in the summer. Billy and Brown are the vice captains but both may well tour and if brown doesn't is he actually caption material? Haskell maybe? Launch?(again if he doesn't tour), robshaw? (Is that even tenable?)

It could be a great opportunity to develop a new leadership group, but as I said maybe not great for Hartley!

Edit - thinking about it, it's quite likely to be who doesn't make it out of youngs and care due to experience, but if Eddie wants to develop a new SH or two it could be interesting!

Might be an opportunity for Itoje- if he doesn't tour. He seems to have a wise head on young shoulders so maybe a good chance to show his leadership qualities early on in his test career. It would certainly provide good leadership continuity for the long term future if he rises to the occasion.
 
Might be an opportunity for Itoje- if he doesn't tour. He seems to have a wise head on young shoulders so maybe a good chance to show his leadership qualities early on in his test career. It would certainly provide good leadership continuity for the long term future if he rises to the occasion.

I would love to see him go to NZ and experience playing for the Lions against the ABs.
 
The only way Itjoe doesn't go is if he pulls a Hartley and get's banned or he's injured surely.
 
I certainly didn't - most impressive - now if only he had passed immediately afterwards.........................................
Mike

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Oh, and another point - look at Scotland on Saturday. OK - they were smashed - but do you really belive that they would have lost by 40 points if they hadn't suffered so many injuries? I don't.
Mike
 
Might be an opportunity for Itoje- if he doesn't tour. He seems to have a wise head on young shoulders so maybe a good chance to show his leadership qualities early on in his test career. It would certainly provide good leadership continuity for the long term future if he rises to the occasion.

He's nailed on to tour but is certainly a leader for the future . Possibly captain but certainly a leader.
 
Hartley will survive as captain either way. Jamie George is certainly a better player but Hartley is Jones' man and his experience probably puts him as our no.2 option in my eyes so he'll stay. Until atleast next 6n. Ironically I can see a failure to make the lions actually helping his England captaincy chances as no one will have a chance to fill in in his absence. A strange one that! Slightly off topic, but Hartley and Farrell both make the lions who will captain in the summer. Billy and Brown are the vice captains but both may well tour and if brown doesn't is he actually caption material? Haskell maybe? Launch?(again if he doesn't tour), robshaw? (Is that even tenable?)

It could be a great opportunity to develop a new leadership group, but as I said maybe not great for Hartley!

Edit - thinking about it, it's quite likely to be who doesn't make it out of youngs and care due to experience, but if Eddie wants to develop a new SH or two it could be interesting!

Brown is definitely 'caption' material - what the caption is depends on what you think of him ... I imagine a few people will have some creative ideas :lol:. Whether or not he is captain material is definitely debatable.

In all seriousness, the captaincy for the Argentina tour will be interesting.

You've covered most of the realistic contenders in your post, but I think there's a good chance most of these will make the Lions squad. Hartley is probably touch and go at the moment, but I think Gatland likes him. From England's 'vice captains', Farrell and Billy are as good as nailed on Lions, so that leaves Brown as the least likely of these to tour.

On the other hand, I don't think that makes him the next choice as captain as I think Eddie definitely has the desire to experiment with other options for the 15 shirt in Argentina and the AIs.

Launchbury and Itoje would be contenders but will surely be Lions? Youngs is probably more of a maybe, but I think he'll go too so Haskell and Robshaw are the obvious options to be captain. Eddie will want to experiment with the back row, but if we lose 10-15 players to the Lions, then I can imagine him wanting to keep some experience in the side. Robshaw probably won't want to do it, so if Hask isn't picked for the Lions, he'd be my pick.

Other than that, it really depends on who tours with the Lions. Someone like Kruis could be a contender. Lawes has the experience but is too quiet. George would be another with a decent shout, but again, I'd back him to tour with the Lions.
 
I certainly didn't - most impressive - now if only he had passed immediately afterwards.........................................
Mike

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Oh, and another point - look at Scotland on Saturday. OK - they were smashed - but do you really belive that they would have lost by 40 points if they hadn't suffered so many injuries? I don't.
Mike

Most likely not but they still had 10 points put past them before their first injury in the game and the tries were scored through their midfield, where I don't believe they had any injuries? On the flip side, they would have lost by even more had Brown rightly been red carded.
 
Regarding Dylan Hartley, I can't see him being changed out any time soon.
He is experienced and tough. Not one of you pommie mongrels has bothered to mention it but in the first ten minutes Hartley was shouting at his team, barking orders on defence in particular and making sure everyone knew their role and was in position. Thats an old head and you need good communication right through the team to be a top side.
I've seen Farrell and Ford talking in the past but the only English forward who seems to make it a priority is the Kiwi Captain.
He was running the show until England had quickly notched up so many points on the scoreboard that it was no longer a contest, somewhere around the 20? minute mark.

Mike Brown- I'm not a fan but to be fair, England keep winning and he had a better game against Scotland. He was getting back his mojo running harder and being a bit more slippery. He's doing alright and unless Jones changes his modus operandi and starts making changes for changes sake then he'll be around for a long while yet. He could play his way back into form with another performance.

Joseph was a class apart in the back line. England don't have another back like him and yes it was only a depleted Scotland, a man down and playing poorly but you can only play whats in front of you.

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I don't wish to be dramatic but I think he was pretty terrible. I have to wonder what the game would have looked like had he been more balanced at the breakdown.

The ref was rotten.
No problem with the yellow for the tip tackle, if anything that could have been a red.
However the refereeing of the ruck in particular was appalling in the first half and marginally better in the second half.
Both teams were up to mischief slowing the ball down but only Scotland were getting pinged for it for the first 40 minutes.
 
I certainly didn't - most impressive - now if only he had passed immediately afterwards.........................................
Mike

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and another point - look at Scotland on Saturday. OK - they were smashed - but do you really belive that they would have lost by 40 points if they hadn't suffered so many injuries? I don't.
Mike

None of their forwards got injured and thats where they lost the game.
 
"I've seen Farrell and Ford talking in the past but the only English forward who seems to make it a priority is the Kiwi Captain."

I think that James Haskell always has plenty to say, and so does Maro Itoje who has been England Captain at every level he's played except senior level, yet.
 

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