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[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

mania

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Bloody McCaw was infuriating. Hed cheat 20 times a match and have a quick chat with the ref and they'd all be swinging from his metaphorical cock. Had 'em eating out of his hands he did.
HAHAHA thats King Richard the Lion Heart McCaw to you
 

unrated

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I say we don’t do anything to Barret now. No citing and no ban.

But it’s cheating and all forms of cheating is equal and should have no place in rugby. I don’t buy the argument that rugby will become more stop start if they penalised it. In fact it will become more free flowing long term.

My proposal would be that WR announces that going forward that they will put more emphasis on this. For now illegal ball moving later they can add other issues that gets highlighted.

So they say it’s illegal don’t do it and if the ref catches you he reverses the penalty. Remember no one told you to cheat so reversal really is not that bad a penalty and you will most likely be in the opposition half otherwise you probably would not have attempted the kick in which you tried to manipulate the ball position illegally.

But if the ref misses it then just like a post game citing of an illegal tackle a citing commissioner should be able to look back at games and identifying instances where refs where purposefully bamboozled or deceived by illegal acts or behaviour. Then just as in a normal citing process there will be mitigating factors. Let’s say the average ban would be for two games.

Use this example. WR announces this now.

Richie Mounga decides to do this in the next game without the ref knowing. The citing commissioner picks it up.

Now Richie has never been caught doing this before. So we reduce it to 1 week. If he does it again it’s standard two weeks. If he does it again it could be three.

All you guys say it’s so common. Well this could actually help it become less common in the long term and it won’t be bad for the game. It eradicates the cheating and players were warned beforehand they then have a choice to take that risk but may face the consequences. Does that really sound so bad?
 

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The point is though where does one draw the line? Do we really cite all scrum halves for feeding the ball squint? Or every hooker who takes a step before a lineout? Or players “accidentally” blocking a kick chaser? Or players pretending to be on their feet when actually they’re leaning against a player on the ground? Or a player holding on to the ball a little longer than allowed? While I appreciate the sentiment, I don’t think we do the game any benefit by refereeing it afterwards with a tv camera with all the angles.

If players get caught in the act then fair enough reverse the penalty or give the opposition a free kick or reverse the input to the scrum or whatnot. However, to retrospectively go through all activities in the game to assess whether they were within the rules of the game or not is completely overkill in my view.
 

themole25

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The point is though where does one draw the line? Do we really cite all scrum halves for feeding the ball squint? Or every hooker who takes a step before a lineout? Or players “accidentally” blocking a kick chaser? Or players pretending to be on their feet when actually they’re leaning against a player on the ground? Or a player holding on to the ball a little longer than allowed? While I appreciate the sentiment, I don’t think we do the game any benefit by refereeing it afterwards with a tv camera with all the angles.

If players get caught in the act then fair enough reverse the penalty or give the opposition a free kick or reverse the input to the scrum or whatnot. However, to retrospectively go through all activities in the game to assess whether they were within the rules of the game or not is completely overkill in my view.

didn't you read? all pushing the boundaries of the rules is illegal and should be a mandatory 2 game ban. Collapsing a maul five meters out is no different than taking a kick two meters closer to the posts than the mark. Are punches to the face even cheating? It might not even help your team win the game. IMHO punching someone in the face is better than moving the ball forward cause what if you break your hand and hurt your team.
 

Kiwiwomble

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is the fact that we can all name half a dozen rules that never / hardly ever get enforced mean a much more completed look at the rules are needed? if we're not enforcing them then why are the rules?

WC has for a long time tried to fix things with more rules leading to common comments along the line of "no one knows whats going on in the scrum", all the stuff about "deliberate" knock downs and having to guess what a player intentions were and make calls on "reasonable chance" of recovering it...its giving me a headache

simplify, get rid of the stuff thats not enforced, scrum feed just has to go through the hole, doesnt need to be straight, i think line outs are actually enforced, normally see one or two not straights a game, if someone knocks the ball and doesn't recover? its a knock on and so set the scrum...attacking team had an overlap?...should have passed it a second earlier...move on

anyone seen a comparison of the number of rules on football compared to rugby, i'd guess the latter has a lot more
 

mania

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simplify, get rid of the stuff thats not enforced, scrum feed just has to go through the hole, doesnt need to be straight,
scrum feed has to be straight otherwise oppn hooker cant win a tightHead
im coaching a phenomenal kid at the moment, u12, as a hooker and he's winning half of the oppn scrum ball. the only time he doesnt have a chance is when the feed isnt straight.
but i fully agree rugby has to simplified. the amount of rules does your head in. i tell the kids i coach that it takes a life time to learn all the rules of rugby .
i played gridiron for 11 years and those rules whilst complex and myriad, were heaps easier to learn. after 4 years i was writing up offense and defense plays .
 

Kiwiwomble

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but they're not straight...generally...more or less everyone else has just said that, i say it and you come on claiming its an imperative

I use to get loads of tightheads when i played, i was shorter than my props so could swing off their shoulders and strike with both feet....but when was the last time you saw a top level game call a crooked feed?...tights heads are rarer than ever and when they do come its normally due to being pushed off the ball and not a quick strike

most other sports dont have rules to enable rare occurrences...doesnt this sound a bit silly..."we need this rule for the 1 in a 100 times someone gets a tighthead or the 1 in 100 players that can do it regularly"
 

mania

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if you get rid of the straight feed why bother having a scrum? isnt this denigrating into league then?
 

Kiwiwomble

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...but theyre not straight now in general, so very little would change other than one less thing for people to complain about, and you can still push over which is generally the preferred option now days anyway

i'd really love to see what a panel of "experts" came up with if the went back to first principles..."right guys, 15 people per side, these are the pitch dimensions, idea is to get the ball over the line without passing it backwards....whats next?"
 

mania

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...but theyre not straight now in general,
im talking the most important rugby here, grassroots.
a straight feed makes it much more exciting...tho i am a scrum junkie.
i honestly cant believe that you; an exHooker, who knows how to counter hook would want that eliminated from the game. its a fricken awesome reward for being a being a little bit quicker thinker.
now that scrums are higher counter hooking is back in vogue
 

OneBlackEye

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Part of the reason rugby is so good is because the complexity. If you make it more simple then it wouldn't be rugby.

Unfortunately the complexity makes it hard to officiate so the downside is once you watch everything in slow motion and high definition you realise that many parts of the game aren't officiated to the letter of the law.

It's frustrating but that's the way it is, to me the trade off is worth it.
 

Kiwiwomble

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i guess ive been a spectator longer than i played and i watch more high level rugby than grass roots and read more about high level too and so it feel how the rules are implement in those games is more to the forefront

I will just never understand having rules that aren't enforced, if theyre not enforced then the perception must be they dont have a material effect on a game...so why have things without a material effect on a game?

and cant agree complexity makes things better, peculiarity? sure, why do we have to pass backwards?...thats the game, simple....anything getting into intentions or interpretation or likelyhood is going down the wrong path for me
 

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Unbound coming into a ruck from the side reckless
It was a dirty shot.
Hmm Retallick had his hands all over the ball, did he not? Certainly was reaching for it, if not on it. He was open season IMHO, and its rugby after all. Clean outs like this are part and parcel of the game. Not like we don't see ABs clean out rucks. Do we? Hmmph!
 
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Nubiwan

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Even Ireland making the '8' in Chicago was said to be a sign of disrespect by a few. No normal person cares about the haka, it's a choreographed dance, very Justin Timberlake. It's the preciousness and rules surrounding it that gets criticised, world rugby literally allow a war dance and don't allow the other team do anything in response, it's an obvious double standard.

And yeah it's the same for the Pacific nations but obviously that stems from the haka and rules surrounding it rather than the other way around like.
Said it before, and I will say it again. I'd take my team back inside the 22 - and run a few balls up and down - and let the ABs do their dance instead of standing like tits, watching them stick their tongues out at us. Haka a great custom for touring ABs teams, & Lions Tourss, but before every single match. Its become tedious.
 

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