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[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

mania

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to clarify, fines are almost never uniform throughout all levels of sport, i dont imagine the same fine would be applied to a tier ones player and a club rugby player, a little common sense please
you have way more faith in worldRugby than i do. all i know is when WR deal with Samoa we're almost always getting screwed over
 

Jabby

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i guess that's why lots of sports use a players match fee is a fine, then its proportional to each player

we cant have it both way, you have to pick the lesser of too evils when there is such disparity between players in the same comp
 

mania

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i guess that's why lots of sports use a players match fee is a fine, then its proportional to each player

we cant have it both way, you have to pick the lesser of too evils when there is such disparity between players in the same comp
whats wrong with penalty reversed or conversion nullified? thats more instant and would mean more. losing your match fee is pale in comparison to you losing the game for the team
 

Icemn

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really... saf'ers would use anything to complain or make a point...

its time they get the same 'shaving cream' they use in football/soccer to counter the stealing of a meter or two when it comes to dead ball situation.
 

Umaga's Witness

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I wasnt saying its all on the ref, it should be penalised as it is a deliberate act even if its not dangerous. But for as long as refs are not hot on it people will try it and get away with it.
Right, yeah both parties should be responsible.
 

Jabby

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whats wrong with penalty reversed or conversion nullified? thats more instant and would mean more. losing your match fee is pale in comparison to you losing the game for the team

sorry, thought catching it at the time went without saying but i realise i never stated it, of course something like that if spotted at the time and if we feel its getting out of hand......coughscrumfeedscough

I was more meaning thewre is little to be done after the game other than something like a fine, other sanctions like bans just seem too extreme
 

mania

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sorry, thought catching it at the time went without saying but i realise i never stated it, of course something like that if spotted at the time and if we feel its getting out of hand......coughscrumfeedscough

I was more meaning thewre is little to be done after the game other than something like a fine, other sanctions like bans just seem too extreme
imho its just part of gamesmanship. i call it cheating but its something thats low priority to all the problems we have in rugby. yeah should be addressed and will if it happens in a WC final but for now its no biggie.
 

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imho its just part of gamesmanship. i call it cheating but its something thats low priority to all the problems we have in rugby. yeah should be addressed and will if it happens in a WC final but for now its no biggie.
I kind of agree and kind of disagree as well. It is cheating and cheating fucken sucks no matter the context, but its certainly always been a part of rugby to push the boundaries in order to get an edge (cheat).
 

TRF_heineken

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Yeah, okay, I get it. Everyone does it, no need to do anything about it, let's leave it as it is and move on to more dramatic things like Owen Farrell's illegal tackling technique, oh wait...
 

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In the same way that squint scrum feeds, hookers stepping to the side for lineout, players taking a couple extra steps when kicking to touch with a penalty, and “unintentional” blocking kick chasers are all similar sorts of offences. Retrospective red cards, bans and fines are pretty wild suggestions.
 

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In the same way that squint scrum feeds, hookers stepping to the side for lineout, players taking a couple extra steps when kicking to touch with a penalty, and “unintentional” blocking kick chasers are all similar sorts of offences. Retrospective red cards, bans and fines are pretty wild suggestions.

All of these things are evidence that WR doesn't have a firm grasp on players cheating on the field and doesn't seem like they really care that cheating is taking place on the field.

Let's hope these minor things doesn't result in bigger things being attempted to cheat such as the whole Bloodgate scandal.
 

SomeOke

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All of these things are evidence that WR doesn't have a firm grasp on players cheating on the field and doesn't seem like they really care that cheating is taking place on the field.

Let's hope these minor things doesn't result in bigger things being attempted to cheat such as the whole Bloodgate scandal.
Unfortunately rugby makes it's money from viewers and rugby as a spectacle is more important than rugby as a completely fair game.
Things like skew scrum and line out feeds, as well as rules like falling over in the ruck rarely get penalized because if they did the game would be waaaaay more stop start than it currently is. WR has to pick their battles to some extent but I agree it sucks. Would be nice if there was a better way (robo-refs?).
 

scotty507

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All of these things are evidence that WR doesn't have a firm grasp on players cheating on the field and doesn't seem like they really care that cheating is taking place on the field.

Let's hope these minor things doesn't result in bigger things being attempted to cheat such as the whole Bloodgate scandal.
Oh come on blood gate and even farrells tackles are so different stealing a metre. If world rugby wants to clamp down them small cheating offences like stealing a metre you dont start with red cards and bans your start with getting the refs to penalise it and get ontop of it. To make it not worth taking that metre. Dont star comparing it to a bad tackle technique which will get him in trouble or someone with blood capsule..
 

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Oh come on blood gate and even farrells tackles are so different stealing a metre. If world rugby wants to clamp down them small cheating offences like stealing a metre you dont start with red cards and bans your start with getting the refs to penalise it and get ontop of it. To make it not worth taking that metre. Dont star comparing it to a bad tackle technique which will get him in trouble or someone with blood capsule..

So you condone small cheating issues, but not big ones, even though they all fall under the same umbrella of cheating. Where do you draw the line??

Small things, tend to grow into bigger things. It's like a small time crook that first steals a pen at school, then a wallet or phone, then as soon as they know they can get away with it, they go for bigger things, next thing you know, they try to knock over a bank.

misdemeanors often become felonies when the offence is repeated.
 

Umaga's Witness

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Unfortunately rugby makes it's money from viewers and rugby as a spectacle is more important than rugby as a completely fair game.
Things like skew scrum and line out feeds, as well as rules like falling over in the ruck rarely get penalized because if they did the game would be waaaaay more stop start than it currently is. WR has to pick their battles to some extent but I agree it sucks. Would be nice if there was a better way (robo-refs?).
You do have to wonder to what extent being lax with the laws contributes to them being abused though. I’d be for a period of time where the game was more stop start if it meant in the long run players started abiding by the laws more.
 

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So you condone small cheating issues, but not big ones, even though they all fall under the same umbrella of cheating. Where do you draw the line??

Small things, tend to grow into bigger things. It's like a small time crook that first steals a pen at school, then a wallet or phone, then as soon as they know they can get away with it, they go for bigger things, next thing you know, they try to knock over a bank.

misdemeanors often become felonies when the offence is repeated.
No im saying the refs need to penalise the small stuff make the reawrd of a couple of metre not worth giving away possession and territory. The players need to learn but that starts with the refs clamping down rather than larger punishments.
 

BobbyM

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So you condone small cheating issues, but not big ones, even though they all fall under the same umbrella of cheating. Where do you draw the line??

Small things, tend to grow into bigger things. It's like a small time crook that first steals a pen at school, then a wallet or phone, then as soon as they know they can get away with it, they go for bigger things, next thing you know, they try to knock over a bank.

misdemeanors often become felonies when the offence is repeated.
Can’t say I agree with this Hein in the context of rugby. McCaw for example operated for his entire career doing those small things, and getting away with them. In no way did it grow into him committing more serious infringements. I appreciate it may happen in society, do you have examples of it happening in rugby?

What should be getting more focus should be activities such as flying off your feet at the ruck, or tackling styles (Faz) and heights. Once we actually get those right, and we are comfortable that the referees are able to effectively protect player safety (and are doing so) then absolutely let’s move on to things like getting the scrum feed straight.
 

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Heineken is gonna have an aneurism
 

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Derpus

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Can’t say I agree with this Hein in the context of rugby. McCaw for example operated for his entire career doing those small things, and getting away with them. In no way did it grow into him committing more serious infringements. I appreciate it may happen in society, do you have examples of it happening in rugby?

What should be getting more focus should be activities such as flying off your feet at the ruck, or tackling styles (Faz) and heights. Once we actually get those right, and we are comfortable that the referees are able to effectively protect player safety (and are doing so) then absolutely let’s move on to things like getting the scrum feed straight.
Bloody McCaw was infuriating. Hed cheat 20 times a match and have a quick chat with the ref and they'd all be swinging from his metaphorical cock. Had 'em eating out of his hands he did.
 
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