• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

(2022 Rugby Championship - Round 2) - South Africa v New Zealand (13/8/2022)

OllyM97

Academy Player
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
96
1660045539613.png 1660045552852.png1660045562284.png
Venue: Ellis Park (Johannesburg)
Kick off: 16.05 (BST), 17.05 (SA Time)
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)
Assistant referees: Angus Gardner (Aus) and Christophe Ridley (Eng)
TMO: Brett Cronan (Aus)​
 

OllyM97

Academy Player
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
96
1660045827308.jpeg

Springboks side is out. Really there’s only 3 proper changes as De Klerk and Arendse were missing anyway. The 3 unforced changes are Ox for Nyakane, Mbonambi for Marx and Vermeulen for Wiese. Kriel replaces Arendse and Hendrikse stays in. I think that’s definitely the strongest team that the Boks have fielded this year.
 
Last edited:

Bada-Bing!

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
12,257
Country Flag

Hong Kong

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

The Boks don’t FA when it comes to announcing their team.

Looks to me like the team that will finally end Foster’s reign.
 

Welsh Exile

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
2,958
Mad how he hasn’t gone before this game really. Surely another loss will be the final nail in the coffin.

Forget the result the manner of that performance and just how clueless NZ looked was crazy. Never seen it before.
 

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,946
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

I felt like the last game was a lot closer than the scoreline suggested. A missed ankle tap here, a Pollard miss there and who knows. We really didn't create our own tries. Are we going to be able to keep up the intensity from last week after the win? It'd be very SA to take the foot off.

That said I still feel we are slight favorites even if I think we are going to see a one score margin.

Might as well be Kriel but I was hoping for Gelant myself. I'd start Marx and Kitshoff. Apart from that I am happy enough. Just hoping for more from in particular De Allende in terms of attacking play. But I'd imagine a lot of our tentativeness ball in hand is game plan. What do I know.
 

Al Bangor

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
4,337
Country Flag

United States

Club or Nation

Brave Lupus

Kudos to the Springboks. I really enjoyed that one. 👍
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
2,410
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Some Springbok fans often like to state that they'd start Marx, and the only argument I've heard for why is that he's the best hooker. But whether he starts or not doesn't determine how many minutes he gets, so does anyone have an argument for why his minutes are better served at the start compared to the end of the game?

Also find it fascinating that big trev isn't there. I know there is a ton of depth but he scrummaged well and kitschoff couldn't even do much damage against a prop that has been struggling against most opponents at super rugby level. Trev can play tighthead too. If you guys don't want him, can you lend him to us for the weekend?
Kudos to the Springboks. I really enjoyed that one. 👍
This game hasn't played yet :p
 

Al Bangor

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
4,337
Country Flag

United States

Club or Nation

Brave Lupus

Some Springbok fans often like to state that they'd start Marx, and the only argument I've heard for why is that he's the best hooker. But whether he starts or not doesn't determine how many minutes he gets, so does anyone have an argument for why his minutes are better served at the start compared to the end of the game?

Also find it fascinating that big trev isn't there. I know there is a ton of depth but he scrummaged well and kitschoff couldn't even do much damage against a prop that has been struggling against most opponents at super rugby level. Trev can play tighthead too. If you guys don't want him, can you lend him to us for the weekend?

This game hasn't played yet :p
You knew I was referring to the game played this past weekend. And I hope I'll enjoy the next one as well. Thanks for pointing out my faux paus. I'm getting old and it's showing. 🤔
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
2,410
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Mad how he hasn’t gone before this game really. Surely another loss will be the final nail in the coffin.

Forget the result the manner of that performance and just how clueless NZ looked was crazy. Never seen it before.
Clueless in what regard? As opposed to lack of execution?
You knew I was referring to the game played this past weekend. And I hope I'll enjoy the next one as well. Thanks for pointing out my faux paus. I'm getting old and it's showing. 🤔
ill take any win I can get at the moment.
 

Jer1cho

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
1,320
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

Gonna be a sick atmosphere that's for sure. There are very few places as hostile for other teams. Boks also seem to hit another gear at that place when it's booming. Still could go either way. All Blacks are gonna give it everything on Sat, but against this oiled machine of a pack we have I don't know if they can.

25missed tackles is way too much though and we need to do better there else we gonna get run ragged. Will be a close game either way. I know the Abs are happy Marx isn't starting more than anyone else that's for sure. Here's hoping Bongi has a blinder lol.
 

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,946
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

Some Springbok fans often like to state that they'd start Marx, and the only argument I've heard for why is that he's the best hooker. But whether he starts or not doesn't determine how many minutes he gets, so does anyone have an argument for why his minutes are better served at the start compared to the end of the game?

Also find it fascinating that big trev isn't there. I know there is a ton of depth but he scrummaged well and kitschoff couldn't even do much damage against a prop that has been struggling against most opponents at super rugby level. Trev can play tighthead too. If you guys don't want him, can you lend him to us for the weekend?

This game hasn't played yet :p
I'd have thought "he is the best" would be reason enough but there is deeper considerations. For the most part the biggest leg up Marx has on Bongi is his work at the breakdown. For my money that is more valuable earlier in the game in terms of not having to chase a score and that feeds into our overall strategy of suffocating opposition. If anything Bongi is more mobile and that will again be more valuable later in the game vs more tired legs. This is assuming they get equal time which I think they shouldn't but we've seen enough to suggest that we will continue to see a new front row at the 40/45 minute mark. So far we've gotten away with tactical subs. I remain a tad skeptical of its application outside of a RWC tournament which is a bit of a marathon and you want to keep your players fresh.
 

Welsh Exile

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
2,958
Clueless in what regard? As opposed to lack of execution?

ill take any win I can get at the moment.
Yeah, as in didn’t really know what they were doing and shell shocked. Lack of execution for sure as well. I mean, some really basic handling errors that you wouldn’t expect to see a Welsh prop make let alone an all black.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
2,410
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Gonna be a sick atmosphere that's for sure. There are very few places as hostile for other teams. Boks also seem to hit another gear at that place when it's booming. Still could go either way. All Blacks are gonna give it everything on Sat, but against this oiled machine of a pack we have I don't know if they can.

25missed tackles is way too much though and we need to do better there else we gonna get run ragged. Will be a close game either way. I know the Abs are happy Marx isn't starting more than anyone else that's for sure. Here's hoping Bongi has a blinder lol.
For the most part, The missed tackles are just a consequence of the style of defence, and were inconsequential. Often they still slowed the player down or forced them to crab sideways only to get smashed by the next player. They weren't so much misses flat at the line either, they were deep behind the gainline and with other defenders ready to clean up.
I'd have thought "he is the best" would be reason enough but there is deeper considerations. For the most part the biggest leg up Marx has on Bongi is his work at the breakdown. For my money that is more valuable earlier in the game in terms of not having to chase a score and that feeds into our overall strategy of suffocating opposition. If anything Bongi is more mobile and that will again be more valuable later in the game vs more tired legs. This is assuming they get equal time which I think they shouldn't but we've seen enough to suggest that we will continue to see a new front row at the 40/45 minute mark. So far we've gotten away with tactical subs. I remain a tad skeptical of its application outside of a RWC tournament which is a bit of a marathon and you want to keep your players fresh.
That's a good answer. I can see because of the type of turnovers he gets - in the tight - that this could make sense. Usually I would say you are more likely to get turnovers later when the game opens up; but that probably applies more to loose forwards and backs.
 

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,946
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

That's a good answer. I can see because of the type of turnovers he gets - in the tight - that this could make sense. Usually I would say you are more likely to get turnovers later when the game opens up; but that probably applies more to loose forwards and backs.
Well, that's just my own considerations. I am sure there are plenty more. I've heard for instance that because of the player's height differences we play Kitshoff alongside Marx rather. I'm not 100% convinced though with that rationale simply because the Stromers ran with Kitshoff, Mbonambi and Malherbe (and chuck in Etzebeth at 4 for measure) for a good long while in SR and our scrum was the one thing that worked for us.

My hope for the weekend is that the inclusion of Vermeulen will make up for Marx's early absence. I might be greedy though but why not run with both on the field at the same time for the ball disruption and/or actual turn overs early on in the tight!? These days first up runners target the pilferer first to force him to affect the tackle and effectively take him out of the game for consecutive runs. That's going to be more difficult to implement with two breakdown threats in the tight. I see Vermeulen as a similar player in this regard in that his turn overs are usually in tight around the fringes of rucks rather than more traditional openside flanker play. For that our centers are quite capable. And Kwagga Smith can add that later in the game when he comes on and the game would be expected to be more open and you'd expect to see a greater frequency of wider play.
 

Jer1cho

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
1,320
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

Mbonambi picked up a knock in training and has withdrawn. Joseph Dweba will start and Marx will be on the bench still. Bruh
 

WaterboySA

Bench Player
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
708
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Blue Bulls

He's a very good player. Yes I'd prefer Marx starting, but Dweba will not drop us.
 

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,946
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

Mbonambi picked up a knock in training and has withdrawn. Joseph Dweba will start and Marx will be on the bench still. Bruh
He's a very good player. Yes I'd prefer Marx starting, but Dweba will not drop us.
I also believe he is a good player and am excited to see him run out for the Stormers BUT he did have a poorish game vs Wales it has to be said... I simply can't see why you don't promote Marx and only bring on Dweba IF we are 22 points ahead (In other words probably not). I get they want to show faith in Dweba and all but still. This AB side has been under pressure but they are still a very dangerous team packed with players that can turn a game individually. Marx was THE player that helped curb that. Crazy actually. Foster must be thanking his lucky stars.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,012,477
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Marx has had his sole start this world cup cycle, got to wait until after 2023 for the next one
 

WaterboySA

Bench Player
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
708
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Blue Bulls

I also believe he is a good player and am excited to see him run out for the Stormers BUT he did have a poorish game vs Wales it has to be said... I simply can't see why you don't promote Marx and only bring on Dweba IF we are 22 points ahead (In other words probably not). I get they want to show faith in Dweba and all but still. This AB side has been under pressure but they are still a very dangerous team packed with players that can turn a game individually. Marx was THE player that helped curb that. Crazy actually. Foster must be thanking his lucky stars.
Eben also had a so-so day in THAT game.....Coach wants to play the full Bomb squad. It's not as if Marx will have less time on the field.....mostly they go 40 min each, maybe 50-30 if things look OK......I say again I would prefer Marx starting but this will work out fine.
 
Top