2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[MikeTheNative]

I think he's definitely out for the first game at least, might be ok for the rest.

 

[AlRums]

What’s Watburtons team? I last I saw he wanted to play Watson and Curry.

I don’t know about team selections but I’ve enjoyed his punditry. Especially considering how dire the BBC 6N coverage usually is.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/rugby...-xv-to-take-on-south-africa-in-the-first-test

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Wonder if they will have a propper juice test for this group(suddenly Eben has to go to Russia for family emergency)

If only they could test whether someone has ever juiced, because once you've juiced you can maintain muscle that you could never have grown in the first place. Sure, its better if you continue juicing, but…

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If only they could test whether someone has ever juiced, because once you've juiced you can maintain muscle that you could never have grown in the first place. Sure, its better if you continue juicing, but…

Then they’d have to ban the entire SA team.

 

[Jakedood]

To be fair, DVDM as well. Can never be 100% sure, but him as a 17 year old is bigger than guys i've known that worked out insanely for 10+ years with huge appetites

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Realistically if they start testing properly there's not a pro rugby player in the sport that's making it onto the pitch
Everyone will be on something, be it banned painkillers or something to aid in recovery or something to aid in cardio or just straight up growth hormone or whatever

I think the only reason SA has a bad rep is because Craven week is far more popular/is a more direct line into pro rugby than schools rugby in the rest of the world - they also don't have the teams of sports scientists advising them on the best "supplement" regime, so it's just stuff bought off the dark web/dodgy bloke down the gym, which is easier to test for - if you compared some of the physiques of pro-academy players (/the transformations of kids going into an academy/a season or two later) then they'd look just as suss

 

[big ginger 8]

Realistically if they start testing properly there's not a pro rugby player in the sport that's making it onto the pitch
Everyone will be on something, be it banned painkillers or something to aid in recovery or something to aid in cardio or just straight up growth hormone or whatever

I think the only reason SA has a bad rep is because Craven week is far more popular/is a more direct line into pro rugby than schools rugby in the rest of the world - they also don't have the teams of sports scientists advising them on the best "supplement" regime, so it's just stuff bought off the dark web/dodgy bloke down the gym, which is easier to test for - if you compared some of the physiques of pro-academy players (/the transformations of kids going into an academy/a season or two later) then they'd look just as suss

I'm not in the rugby is completely clean crowd but that is a ridiculous statement. Not a chance every player is on a banned substance. Over 50 quite possibly/probably but saying that every single player is on a banned substance is as ridiculous a statement as saying none of them or on anything.

I think the reason Craven Week gets the attention is because there's literally been an 'expose' written about the steroid culture for it no?

Big transformations after going into an academy don't scream sus to me. They're at the age where men fill out anyway, producing the most natural testosterone they ever will, only have to eat and train (usually don't even play that many games which is the biggest interference for gym time) and have just been introduced to a pro set up. Sure a decent number probably do at that time but the transformations by themselves aren't inherently screaming PEDs.

I'm in the office now so can't really expand but will later

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also according to all the bodybuilding forums etc just eating 5 chickens a day with veg can make you like this

Obviously a scoop of protein powder as wel

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not in the rugby is completely clean crowd but that is a ridiculous statement. Not a chance every player is on a banned substance. Over 50 quite possibly/probably but saying that every single player is on a banned substance is as ridiculous a statement as saying none of them or on anything.

Tbh I'm basing this is off of combat sport levels, because I'm more knowledgeable about banned substances in that sport, but there are limits to how much caffeine/ibuprofen you're allowed in your system when you're competing etc. - I know someone who was in an academy and was advised not to take a certain pre-workout because the levels of something in it were too high and he'd pop if he was tested soon after

I'm not saying that everyone's blasting HGH or anything, but everyone will be bending the rules to a certain extent - even if they're not aware that they are

I imagine most players will have TUE for a whole host of prescription meds, but seeing players popping pain pills on the pitch seems pretty odd to me

 

[ncurd]

Wife's Nephew is stupidly huge these days and massive changes over the last year or two. Said he was almost certainly taking something other than protein powder and going down the gym every day.

 

[Jakedood]

Another thing is, most drugs that you take leave your bloodstream within 3 weeks. Timing is crucial, and in competition testing is more regular. Pre seasons for that reason may be a huge reason why we see the massive growth

 

[Quel Carreleur]

IMO, it's rife in the academies - mostly pain relief and anti-inflammatories so that they can push themselves harder in the gym, and there's no job security - but pretty much not a problem once actually a senior - at least, for the players with job security; the fringe guys may be juicing on something.

It's about the risk / benefit ratio. in the academy, testing is... pathetic, so there's relatively low risk; but the reward is huge - the next 12 years can depend upon it. Once a senior though, the testing is much more reasonable (not as stringent as I'd like, not as bad as plenty of other sports), and the rewards are lower - especially as they're mostly interested in maintaining what they've already achieved. Added to which, of course the world is much more forgiving of an 18 year old who made a naïve mistake, than a 28 years old who really ought to know better.

It's also easy for us old farts to not know (or have forgotten) how easy it is to put on muscle as a late-teen whilst clean - especially if we were largely trying to play rugby (and probably other sports as well) alongside the gym work, a day job (even if studying) and no professional level nutrition, training and equipment.

 

[ncurd]

It's also easy for us old farts to not know (or have forgotten) how easy it is to put on muscle as a late-teen whilst clean - especially if we were largely trying to play rugby (and probably other sports as well) alongside the gym work.

Yeah wife's nephew is in late 20's now which is why I'm highly dubious.

Admittedly I have no clue apart ad-hoc cycling to work and very dubiously playing Squash once a week for a period I haven't regularly exercised my entire life until the past 2 years.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The sport has loads of collisions, loads of injuries and demands unnaturally big men to move unnaturally quickly. Of course there will be plenty pushing the boundaries and I have no doubt a good number stepping over, possibly more often those at sub elite level who have the ambition but not quite been blessed with the genetics.

Being generally fit or powerful for sport is one thing. But, with the benefit of hindsight, why anyone would want to look like the pic @Akker Van Der Tigs posted I really don’t know. Quite apart from health risks - joint injuries, extra strain on heart, effects of outside ‘assistance’, probably not doing much cardio etc, at some point you’re going to stop….and then all that hard work literally goes South.

https://maximsmadness.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/internet-marketing-before-and-after-jpg.gif

 

[Bada-Bing!]

A lot of top players also turning to CBD.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57415192.amp

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

CBD is big in American sports matter of time before it grew here.

NGL friend takes them and recommended it to me. Tempted to try.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Playing rugby at any level comes with its health risks. Increases chances of arthritis, concussions aren't good, muscle tears rarely heal properly when not treated well. (I'm terrible for just "feeling" my way back from injury and would be more conscious than most I'd suspect) So any risks related to illegal substances aren't going to be massively dissuasive.

We already know rugby has a painkiller problem, it's documented. I've been in dressing rooms at 2nd XV level where lads offer ibuprofen around the room like it's chewing gum before a game, God knows what it's like at higher levels.

I doubt there's many players who haven't been in a position where they would fail a test at some point, whether common or consistent I'm not as sure. I can't say I haven't wondered what it'd be like running a cycle or two and I've seen some fairly unimpressive looking lads who have juiced but doubt a full cycle is common in rugby, lads qualifying for academies are impressive athletes at peak fitness.

CBD is big in American sports matter of time before it grew here.

NGL friend takes them and recommended it to me. Tempted to try.

I take decaf kush the odd time, started when I was struggling to sleep in early lockdown this year. It definitely helped then and when I use it now (a couple times a week max and could easily go a month without it) I feel slightly more relaxed, haven't experienced any negatives.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've tried CBD in the past and found it did nothing,

Not sure if it's just the latest snake oil (like when cupping was a big thing a few olympics ago) or if I just need to pay for higher concentrations of the stuff - whenever you see athletes taking it they're necking the bottles that are £100+ a pop

 

[ncurd]

I've tried CBD in the past and found it did nothing,

Not sure if it's just the latest snake oil (like when cupping was a big thing a few olympics ago) or if I just need to pay for higher concentrations of the stuff - whenever you see athletes taking it they're necking the bottles that are £100+ a pop

Its almost hillarious looking back it now all these swimmers (mainly American) with those big circular marks over their bodies looking like idiots and trying to justify it scientifically. Then within 4 years they'd all stopped.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've tried CBD in the past and found it did nothing,

Not sure if it's just the latest snake oil (like when cupping was a big thing a few olympics ago) or if I just need to pay for higher concentrations of the stuff - whenever you see athletes taking it they're necking the bottles that are £100+ a pop

I always go for the highest concentration vape juice and gummies. There's a relaxing element to vaping anyway so could be a placebo for sure.

The vape is a good thing to have when you're prone to bumming fags or buying a box of fags on a night out anyway. Marginally less unhealthy is just a negative way of saying I'm being healthy.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

I've tried CBD in the past and found it did nothing,

It depends what you're using it for; and then getting the dosage right for the individual. And of course, just like everything else, everyone reacts differently.

It's "worth a go" for... essentially calming the brain down a bit - so insomnia, anxiety, epilepsy, and nociplastic pain (that is - pain generated by a drama-queen brain, rather than by tissue damage). There's still not much research done on it - largely because it's considered a supplement, not a drug; so no pharmaceutical level investment (or profit).

I found it fairly useful for my insomnia, and a little for my knee (but not worth persisting with daily); my dog had a new lease of life from her arthritis for a couple of years (until the last couple of months)



Cupping was always ridiculous, and nothing more than placebo (but you have to remember that placebo is real and powerful)



I predict that the next fad is going to be devil's claw

 

[ncurd]

Just looking up cupping and was shocked to see it was the last Olympics (for some reason I thought it was Shanghai) are the idiots still doing it? Is Phelps still a lead contender? I don't follow swimming at all.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

are the idiots still doing it?

Still see the odd athlete doing it - few rugby players on social media, crossfit athletes love it - and the odd MMA fighter too

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Individuals tend to love cupping - it's dramatic and obvious - which are both very powerful placebos

 

[WaterboySA]

I just thought that AWJ got healed pretty quick, just joked about the juice....SA the last country that can point fingers about that.....I'm certain the amped guy few posts back have smaller biceps than Eben...lol

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[AlRums]

Happy but a bit surprised at the strength of support for Hamish Watson at openside

Not too unhappy at that selection

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Conan a looooot closer to Faletau than that. Ahead in my books.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Curry and Furlong have started DJing together and call themselves Scrum & Bass, and even have home made hats with a logo on

Call the tour off, it's peaked

 

[Welsh Exile]

Apologies for the bump but thought this was pretty funny and thought @Le Frére Alpha might accept Gatlands humble apology and bridges could be built.

“I originally selected Louis Rees-Zammit because of his finishing prowess, but after an 11th-hour rethink went for Josh. I didn't want to make the same mistake as I did in South Africa, leaving Josh out of the first two Tests. He has the uncanny habit of scoring tries when they matter. For example, he had a great opportunity to score in the third Test last year which would have put us in a commanding position to win the series, but unfortunately the pass wasn't made

(Re Sexton) In South Africa I was concerned about his injury record and whether he could get through the tour, and I still probably ask myself now whether it was the right decision to leave him at home.

"You can have a huge database on each player but sometimes it comes down to what a player has done for you in the past, even if he is currently out of form, and sometimes it just comes down to your gut instinct," he added. "I know I have not always got it right. Some of my selections I still turn over in my head to this day. At the end of the day, selection is just opinion and getting the dynamics right for a Lions tour is one where the learning process never ends. On last year's tour of South Africa, I was probably too conciliatory at times in picking the Test team.

"This hypothetical selection has been a lot more fun. With so little preparation time, I have included some national combinations but also tried to ensure that all four countries are represented in the 23-man squad. It is also probably the first time that the selection is all mine! I hope it stirs up some debate.”

Gatland's Lions XV of today: 15. Freddie Steward (England), 14. Josh Adams (Wales), 13. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland), 12. Owen Farrell (England), 11. James Lowe (Ireland), 10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland), 9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland), 1. Ellis Genge (England), 2. Jamie George (England), 3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland), 4. James Ryan (Ireland), 5. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland), 6. Courtney Lawes (England), 7. Josh van der Flier (Ireland), 8. Caelan Doris (Ireland).

Replacements: Dan Sheehan (Ireland), Andrew Porter (Ireland), Zander Fagerson (Scotland), Maro Itoje (England), Taulupe Faletau (Wales), Ali Price (Scotland), Marcus Smith (England), Jack Nowell (England).